Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:24 pm
Finding Lex's musings a tad too scifi-ishly meandering, I now find this mind daydreaming about an alternate conversation between Schmachtenberger and Kastrup. Nevertheless, worth a listen for the edifying well-focused responses from Daniel.
Schmachtenberger is a real person? And currently alive??
I will definitely be checking him out!
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:33 pm
Btw, anyone who enjoyed the chat with Schmachtenberger, may also like this trialogue ...
This is a very interesting discussion. It was actually a very weird experience for me. These guys are super smart, insightful and I find myself agreeing with many if not all of the concepts they are expressing, but there is also a frustration that they seem to keep dancing around a spiritual border. I'm only about half way through so maybe that changes. For ex., Jordan Hall is dancing around spiritual issues a lot when speaking of the cube of "possibility space" and human "sphere" as a microcosm of sorts, but it seems like he does not want to make it too explicitly spiritual. I haven't followed his work so maybe he does elsewhere. I realize my own interest at this time biases me towards wanting to hear that sort of discussion, and after reading a fair deal of Steiner and Barfield, anything else feels like a step down in terms of explicit spiritual discussion. But I also don't know how these concepts can be raised beyond mere concepts and into the practical realm of action they are all seeking without doing so. To imbue their systems theoretical perspectives with the deep meaning that only comes through penetration of spiritual realm. As a contrast, I would point to Dr. Iain McGilchrist and Mark Vernon - very bright thinkers who senses the urgency of our collective situation, but also don't hesitate to make their conceptual framework explicitly religious/spiritual when necessary. Anyway, it's still a really great discussion with great ideas, but just an odd experience for me.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:29 amThis is a very interesting discussion. It was actually a very weird experience for me. These guys are super smart, insightful and I find myself agreeing with many if not all of the concepts they are expressing, but there is also a frustration that they seem to keep dancing around a spiritual border.
I do share the same frustration, which is probably due to the kind of discussion they're having being stage-specific, and thus not finding it quite in sync with where one is at. However, I still find it serving a valid function, and indicative of at least an incipient kind of 'transfigured' thinking.
Perhaps verging on more of what we crave, Jordan Hall's dialogue with John Vervaeke may be more fulfilling ...
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:29 am
but there is also a frustration that they seem to keep dancing around a spiritual border.
The dance, the breathing "around a border" is the Spirit. If we accept that the purpose of theoretical metaphysical discussion, vision quests, meditation etc. is to bring the lessons learned and wisdom gained back to living experience, back to improving our relations, then there's nothing or very little that is non-spiritual.
AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:29 am
but there is also a frustration that they seem to keep dancing around a spiritual border.
The dance, the breathing "around a border" is the Spirit. If we accept that the purpose of theoretical metaphysical discussion, vision quests, meditation etc. is to bring the lessons learned and wisdom gained back to living experience, back to improving our relations, then there's nothing or very little that is non-spiritual.
Yes of course the discussion and activities they are engaged in is the Spirit at work. What I was referring to was someone just coming out and observing-asking, "what we are doing now is the Spirit at work, so what exactly is 'the Spirit' and what does it imply for the relationship between the realm of Thinking we are engaged in right now and what we could be engaged in 10 years from now?". Ultimately I think those sorts of questions and discussions can only add greater dimensionality and richness to the practical plans of action they are all pursuing in their own ways.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
What is the essenxe of Spirit and spiritual activity? What kind of detailed resolution can we give to the spiritual realm which then feeds back into lviing experience of the world and practical actions in it?
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 3:36 pm
What kind of detailed resolution can we give to the spiritual realm which then feeds back into lviing experience of the world and practical actions in it?
I may have shared this elsewhere, but there is a 3 part series of talks, titled 'Recovering the Sacred' between Vervaeke and Hall on JV's youtube channel that is very much about making the sacred salient to our everyday, prosaic life experience ... Part 1 should provide links to 2 and 3 ...
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
