Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo

[Lou Gold]

Can we place our faith in flawed perspectives? Yes, and that's what we end up doing all the time. The perspective that faith is unnecessary to be-in-the-world is one such flawed perspective people have started putting their faith in recently. It's convenient, enticing, and relatively simple, but it's self-defeating.

I agree Ashvin. It is necessary to truly comprehend-and-understand (realize) that relying on either rationality or intuition alone will result in a flawed perspective.

As a non-philosopher myself, I'm curious as to what folks think this means for so-called "analytic philosophy"? From my naive perspective, I think it means that there's gonna be a big leap at the end. However, not to throw out the baby with the bath, it must be gratefully acknowledged that in the likes of Bernardo's competent hands, analytic philosophy is a shining way to shred the whining ways of dogmatic reductive materialism.

[Mandibil]

You have faith that we exist and can understand what you are writing

That's rationale

[AshvinP]

Can we place our faith in flawed perspectives? Yes, and that's what we end up doing all the time. The perspective that faith is unnecessary to be-in-the-world is one such flawed perspective people have started putting their faith in recently. It's convenient, enticing, and relatively simple, but it's self-defeating.

I agree Ashvin. It is necessary to truly comprehend-and-understand (realize) that relying on either rationality or intuition alone will result in a flawed perspective.

I would actually characterize "intuition" as a 'step above' faith. What I'm trying to refer to is that hope and trust we put into Reality after our experience and thinking in all its manifestations has 'bottomed out'. Perhaps there is a time and spiritual plane where such faith is no longer necessary, but for all pragmatic intents and purposes that faith is still necessary for everyone alive.

As a non-philosopher myself, I'm curious as to what folks think this means for so-called "analytic philosophy"? From my naive perspective, I think it means that there's gonna be a big leap at the end. However, not to throw out the baby with the bath, it must be gratefully acknowledged that in the likes of Bernardo's competent hands, analytic philosophy is a shining way to shred the whining ways of dogmatic reductive materialism.

BK readily acknowledges the 'miracle' necessary for his idealism, which is what I am referring to as faith here. Now he may be under-estimating the human potential to meta-cognitively understand MAL, but that's a different issue. I'm not sure if you have yet another issue with his analytical philosophy?

[Lou Gold]

I would actually characterize "intuition" as a 'step above' faith. What I'm trying to refer to is that hope and trust we put into Reality after our experience and thinking in all its manifestations has 'bottomed out'. Perhaps there is a time and spiritual plane where such faith is no longer necessary, but for all pragmatic intents and purposes that faith is still necessary for everyone alive.

My meanings of 'faith' and 'intuition' appear to be personally different (I'm not asserting they are generally better) than yours. I did not seek or attain my faith. I opened. I received. I surrendered. I hold it without grasping as my most precious gift. For me 'intuition' is a lesser but more common experience of being led even when I don't know what I'm looking for or, indeed, that I'm looking for anything.

BK readily acknowledges the 'miracle' necessary for his idealism, which is what I am referring to as faith here. Now he may be under-estimating the human potential to meta-cognitively understand MAL, but that's a different issue. I'm not sure if you have yet another issue with his analytical philosophy?

One miracle is equally necessary for Materialism and all ontologies. Yes, my Faith is my one miracle, if it is understood as rock solid and more than a mere belief or a 'model'. BK says that there are three paths toward knowing -- logic, empiricism and introspection -- but it is only introspection that is capable of generating direct experience. I see analytic philosophy as privileging the magnificent tools of logic and empiricism but not as sufficient for birthing direct experience, which will require either an inexplicable grace or a leap of faith. Meanwhile, analytic philosophy seems marvelous for challenging Materialism and for providing rational support for an Idealism that has already been directly experienced.