Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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Cleric K
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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Lou Gold wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:20 pm Now, please tell us what you have to say about the Peruvian shamans who quickly saw the presence of the spirits and knew how to facilitate Maté's healing?
I can say they are doing their job.

If someone wants to develop clairvoyance and asks me for advice, whether to go with shamanism or initiation suitable for the man of today, I wont give him advice but simply describe the differences and let them decide for themselves.

The modern path passes through self-development. Actually the self-development is primary and clairvoyance is only a consequence, a "side-effect".
Luke 11
34 The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.
35 Take heed therefore that the light which is in thee be not darkness.
36 If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.
These verses refer to actual spiritual perception. The single eye is the balancing of the mirrors of the head soul organ - the nondual mind state. Then we see clearly. In order for our body to be full of light we must drive out all darkness - these are the dark spirits that are hiding. When the eye is not single - we are bouncing between the mirrors of the head and we are easily confused.

In this sense, when we work to purify the mind and the heart, when we want to put our life in service for a higher purpose, we attain to seership even if we are not looking for it. Everyone is a seer by default. If we don't see it's because there's too much darkness and confusion. We are not seeing because it would be too traumatizing to see what is there to be seen. When these are dealt with, we begin to see. We first see the spirits within ourselves, then we can see them in others.

If we train to become clairvoyant by neglecting the work on self-perfection, we can still achieve something (even if the mechanism of actual perception is slightly different, but that's a whole other lecture). But if we haven't dared to lift the spirits from our own being, if we can't see clearly in ourselves, how can we be certain that we see clearly in others? If the spirits in us manipulate what we see, we have no means to know that because we don't see our own spirits and how they manipulate us.

I'm not speaking against the shamans. As said - they are doing what they are supposed to. It's just an impartial presentation of facts for anyone finding himself on a crossroad.
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Lou Gold
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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OK, you informed me that anyone must be carefully aware with the tools of expanded awareness because use or abuse can occur anywhere. However, a hypothetical discourse on clairvoyance does not tell me what you think of shamanic healing. Is shamanic healing a path for working "to purify the mind and the heart, when we want to put our life in service for a higher purpose, ...?"

Please note that I'm not avoiding the obvious wisdom that a medical doctor, a shamanic healer, a Christian contemplative and a Buddhist meditator must do their own inner work and avoid the pitfalls of "spiritual bypass", the latter problem being thoughtfully discussed in this video:

Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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Cleric K
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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Lou Gold wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:30 am Is shamanic healing a path for working "to purify the mind and the heart, when we want to put our life in service for a higher purpose, ...?"
Yes, it is.

Although it's not a path that goes all the way. Here's what I mean.

Shamanism works with what we can call Gaia consciousness. The spirits within air, water, rocks, plants, animals and man can be perceived. A lot can be healed in this way. A vast majority of diseases - both physical and psychic - originate in these domains. But not all. There are things that the shaman can't perceive. If he's to perceive them, he must first find the means to perceive them in himself.

Here's an image. Think of a plant. We can heal it through fertile soil, clean water, pure air, protection from parasites and weeds. Yet there's also one more factor - Sunlight. If we block Sunlight the plant will whither even if everything else is in perfect order.

This is the state of man today. And this is the time when Sun consciousness gradually tries to find its place in human beings. This doesn't mean that man will evacuate and live on the Sun. No need to do that, since the Sun has connected with the Earth. We find Sun consciousness in the physical world. The plant not only doesn't lose its plantness because it absorbs the Sunlight but it is what it makes it truly a plant. So it is for man. He not only doesn't lose his humanness when Sun consciousness begins to make its way into his being but only then he becomes truly human.

The Sun is the true source of Life. This is true even in purely physical sense - the Sun is considered to be the source of low entropy that animates all Life.

The Sun consciousness doesn't eradicate Gaia consciousness but it brings it into perspective, it illuminates it, ennobles it, enlivens it. Now it's not only a question for supporting the balance of Life but about infusing Life directly from the Source - "I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly." This consciousness also reveals the workings of spirits that manifest not within Gaia consciousness but on the gradient between Earth, Moon and Sun (or microcosmically - body, soul, spirit). There are many spirits there that create great mischief, which Gaia consciousness can neither perceive, nor heal. Only when these realms are illuminated by the Sun we can find the means to address the issues that plague our civilization. Healing only from Gaia perspective is patching up a sinking ship - we put a patch here, the water breaks from another place. The reasons for sinking itself can only be addressed from the Sun's perspective, there we perceive the spirits that constantly punch holes in the hull and undermine our endeavors. Many of these spirits live in the sphere between Earth and Moon. They act on humans but don't have their astral bodies within the earthly realms. That's why they are invisible for Gaia.

Shamanism is doing what it's supposed to do. If we see the different paths and we are still drawn towards it - then it's our path. Yet there are things that have happened through the millennia. New consciousness has been bestowed to humanity - although, one that can only be attained in freedom, we have to choose for ourselves to attain it. It's not forced on us. Now we live in a time when the wounded healer can transform into the healer full of Light, Life and Love - by virtue of the fact that he draws them directly from the inexhaustible Source.

PS: I hope it's clear that the Sun is taken in the esoteric sense (although it is directly related to the physical Sun too) and Sun consciousness has nothing to do with worshipping the burning orb in the sky.
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Lou Gold
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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continuing our inquiry,,,

Are you asserting that there is a level reached where completely free choice no longer exists? Are you saying that Lucifer exists only in the more middling marginal realms and cannot fall from 'on-high'? Also, are you saying that there are no 'heavenly animal spirits'?

Note: I'll return to the Sun along another road of inquiry but let's stay with this inquiry for now.
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Cleric K
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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Lou Gold wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:46 pm Are you asserting that there is a level reached where completely free choice no longer exists?
I don't understand the question. You mean that free choice diminishes as we go to higher levels?
Lou Gold wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:46 pm Are you saying that Lucifer exists only in the more middling marginal realms and cannot fall from 'on-high'
It's a very complex topic and speaking in pieces can only increase the confusion. Let's say that he does fall from 'on-high' in the middle realms where enough darkness exists so that he can't reconnect with his Divine nature - just as man today struggles to find his Divine nature. He fights for his own evolution. Yet the place he is, makes him dependent on something that only humans have - that's why he interferes. From the highest Wisdom it's all a part of the Cosmic Plan. The adversaries of humanity were needed in order for us to experience freedom. The adversaries give the possibility to err - something that man would never do if he flowed strictly with the laminar Divine flow. And just because he can err, so he can experience the consequences of good and evil and with this the freedom to chose one or the other. One day, when we evolve beyond the Earth and Moon conditions, we'll save Lucifer, we'll help him regain what he had to lose in order to fulfil his task in the Cosmic Plan. But until then we should know how to deal with him. Our weapon is the Sun-link. This is what he doesn't have and avoids - that's what makes him what he is and why he's doing the Cosmic service that he's doing (even if he himself doesn't realize it).

PS: The mystery of evil wouldn't be understood if we don't recognize also another collective being that in certain sense works in the opposite way of Lu. Both Macrocosmic beings pull man to the left or the right of the point of balance. We can keep the balance only if we reconnect with the Solar Hero.
Lou Gold wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:46 pm Also, are you saying that there are no 'heavenly animal spirits'?
The group souls of the animals live within the Moon sphere (the sphere encompassing the Earth and the orbit of the Moon). These things should be understood esoterically. In higher cognition, when consciousness expands to encompass the Moon sphere we find there the group souls of the animals. From there they 'reach out' into the individual animals to drive their instinctive life. The biological organism of a spider doesn't understand how to spin the intricate web. The web is envisioned by the creative activity of the collective animal spirit and bestowed as instincts in the individual members of the species.
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David_Sundaram
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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Lou Gold wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:09 pmI also see an important role of (1) in that, as various crises escalate, there will be a call for more and more compassionate individuals who can "hold balance in troubled conditions" as well as a call for more creativity (not just reruns of old habits). I'm not surprised that the Dalai Lama now says, "My religion is kindness."
Just what leads to and, when it is lost, helps re-constitute 'balance' is a debatable issue which I think your, 'religious' ;) embrace of 'kindness' as a superordinate value obfuscates, Lou.

Relevant (IMO) quotes: "Why yield, just on the eve of battle, to this weakness which does no credit to those who call themselves Aryans, and only brings them infamy and bars against them the gates of heaven? O Arjuna! Why give way to unmanliness? O thou who art the terror of thine enemies! Shake off such shameful effem­inacy, make ready to act!" (The Bhagavad Gita, Ch.2); "I have been born again and again, from time to time; thou too, O Arjuna! ... I have no beginning. Though I am imperishable, as well as Lord of all that exists, yet by My own will and power do I manifest Myself. Whenever spirituality decays and materialism is rampant, then, O Arjuna, I reincarnate Myself! To protect the righteous, to destroy the wicked and to establish the kingdom of God, I am reborn from age to age." (The Bhagavad Gita, Ch.4); "Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come! It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him [implicitly not if he doesn't 'repent'!] " (Luke, Ch.17); "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. Woe unto you, ye blind guides, ... Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. ... Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.[/b]" (Matthew, Ch.23); "Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all." (The Book of Revelation, Ch.18).
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David_Sundaram
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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Cleric K wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:07 pmThe "I" feels itself as the authority without realizing that it is being supported on a whole ecosystem of living beings. It takes humility and courage to confront one's reality. The "I" must become smaller and smaller - it should de-identify from the colony of spirits that it sits on top of and calls 'me'. When we de-identify (and we do that by concentrating on the one thing that is truly ours) we become aware of the spirits. Otherwise we are merged with them and when we say 'me' we are unknowingly referring to this totality of beings.
My 'view' dovetails with yours, I think. Cleric. In my book, Godspeak 2000, I say:

"In 'ascending' sequence, with prior developments
integrated and built upon, ‘bodies’ have become more
coordinated, ‘spirits’ more potent, ‘minds’ more perceptive,
resident Intelligence more designful and adept. Even what
some call ‘simple’ single-celled organisms are architectural
masters capable of cognizing, culling and compiling environmental
ingredients so as to reproduce themselves and further
their particular line of development. Each succeeding level of
integration further demonstrates the aim of the impetus
inherent within all being—that is, to seek and establish
cooperative affiliation
with suitable others in order to
enhance creativity and ]increase the degree of intelligent
actualization
.

Life’s evolutionary accomplishments in such pursuit
are extremely varied in range and infinitely diverse; and,
because of the involuted nature of their interconnectedness
and interdependence, the ways in which its many forms and
levels are related cannot be simply stated. Generally speaking,
however, one might say that ‘lesser’ combinations of
body, mind and spirit tend to be incorporated by, and serve
to sustain, those more comprehensively developed.*

[Footnote*:
Note, however, this principle is not strictly interpretable on
an ‘individual’ basis. In fact, since every living entity is part of a
larger one (except for the whole), the very concept of ‘an
individual is a categorical oversimplification of the truth. As is
clearly the case with multi-cellular organisms and the cells that
comprise them, Life is not an individual phenomenon or attribute.
Existence is an integrated continuum, with ‘lesser’ Life nested
within ‘greater’ Life, from the very least, up to and including the
totality of being. Actualization is therefore not just a private
matter, governed by individual power and choice. The principle of
‘the survival of the fittest’, for example, is less a function of
personal power and prerogative than of living context. While
‘individual’ units pursue goals of their own, the results of their
initiatives are determined by the hierarchical bearing of entities
they are part of, as these go about effecting more comprehensive
values
in the same process.
]"
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Lou Gold
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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I don't understand the question. You mean that free choice diminishes as we go to higher levels?
I'm asking if YOU mean free choice diminishes at higher levels?
Lou asked: Are you saying that Lucifer exists only in the more middling marginal realms and cannot fall from 'on-high'

Cleric responded: It's a very complex topic and speaking in pieces can only increase the confusion. Let's say that he does fall from 'on-high' in the middle realms where enough darkness exists so that he can't reconnect with his Divine nature - just as man today struggles to find his Divine nature. He fights for his own evolution. Yet the place he is, makes him dependent on something that only humans have - that's why he interferes. From the highest Wisdom it's all a part of the Cosmic Plan.
When the Light falls upon human nature, does it not reveal both it's divine and shadow nature? Indeed, is it possible to have any creature (or object) at any level without both shadow and light?

I'm similarly wondering why you bifurcate human and animal, resulting in equating animal with instinct and nature with something 'red in tooth and claw' and not both just as revealing of divine beauty and grace, as when one says, "I see God in the tree because I see the tree as the tree"? Similarly, since plants possess the ability to turn light into life and all animals (including humans) are dependent on them, why is human intelligence ranked as 'higher'? Why does your model or story seem so anthropocentric rather than cosmically biocentric?

This, I suspect, is actually the representational language difficulty we seem to be having. Animal nature, to me, is not only an example of something 'lower'. It also reveals Divine Beauty and Grace. I would ask folks to watch this 3-part interview (below) with the divinely creative Jacob Collier and focus on how well integrated glorious animal sensory nature and and human mindfulness perform in coordinated fashion. Just watch the concepts and sounds and actions in a single flow. I would urge listening to the whole interview (one part will flow into the next) and notice along the way how many metaphysical points are revealed in performance. Note: I am not a musician. I have very little musical performance ability and no technical music knowledge and, yet, I somehow grok `what's going on, coming down, flowing forth and lifting up in the interview. Life seems endlessly creative to me in every direction happening all together now and less a passage through a single pin-hole gate.

Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

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Cleric K wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 4:36 pm PS: The mystery of evil wouldn't be understood if we don't recognize also another collective being that in certain sense works in the opposite way of Lu. Both Macrocosmic beings pull man to the left or the right of the point of balance. We can keep the balance only if we reconnect with the Solar Hero.
Cleric, a quick question in this regard - do you think it is fair to say the Christian Trinity is lacking in this regard, and it is more properly conceived as a 'Quaternity', with the Divine Parents and the 'Hostile' Children?
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
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Lou Gold
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Re: Essay: Man, Know Thyself

Post by Lou Gold »

Cleric K wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 8:22 pm
Cleric wrote: Here's an interesting observation: from the point of view of the physical Sun shadows don't exists - every planet, moon, asteroid is in 'full' phase.
Of course, the analogy of a central pov of the sun is not ultimate, if taking into account that it too is orbiting around the centre of the galaxy, apparently at 230km/sec. So out of curiosity, in your cosmology, what does the supposed supermassive black hole at the centre of the galaxy symbolically represent? Also, one wonders what the galaxy may be revolving around? :?
Is it possible that there is another kind of darkness or blackness, which exists and is neither an empty void or a shadow-type blockage or absence of light?
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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