Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:47 pm
Curiously, one can say much the same about Gabor, whose own shadow work is still ongoing, and that his 'energy' doesn't come across as one who is at complete unrepressed peace with himself ~ which I suspect he would admit to. So I see both he and JP as wounded healers, and no reason not to listen to either of them.
I very much agree. The shamanic approach is largely based on being a "wounded healer." To GM's credit he often mentions quite explicitly the work he is still doing on himself. No need to speculate Shu. Here is an example of "Healer: Heal Thyself" that GM offers in context of an ayahuasca retreat he was leading where he ended up being led himself.
In any case, I'm wondering if the ulterior motive for making this original post is more political than metaphysical.
Which makes me wonder if there is not a shadow issue persistently swirling about your concern for what might be political?
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
Lou ... I've no issue with debating political agendas, but once again, that is not the intended focus of this forum. So perhaps it's your shadow issues with my perceived shadow issues that you might want to focus on.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:22 pm
Lou ... I've no issue with debating political agendas, but once again, that is not the intended focus of this forum. So perhaps it's your shadow issues with my perceived shadow issues that you might want to focus on.
Of course, it is! And I'm fine with being up-front and totally admitting it. Yup, that's what I do.
Do you think form receives light without shadow?
I think I may have posted this image before but it seems worth posting again...
image: "Sightseeing" by Jamie Lluch
BTW, I believe it's important to view the full interview from which the original posted video was excerpted. GM raises an important concern that Jung never mentions trauma but rather elevates certain energies to the status of a Human Nature Archetype. I don't know that GM is correct about the archetypes but there are deep metaphysical questions embedded in how these representations come to be.
Last edited by Lou Gold on Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:47 pm
Curiously, one can say much the same about Gabor, whose own shadow work is still ongoing, and that his 'energy' doesn't come across as one who is at complete unrepressed peace with himself ~ which I suspect he would admit to. So I see both he and JP as wounded healers, and no reason not to listen to either of them.
I very much agree. The shamanic approach is largely based on being a "wounded healer." To GM's credit he often mentions quite explicitly the work he is still doing on himself. No need to speculate Shu. Here is an example of "Healer: Heal Thyself" that GM offers in context of an ayahuasca retreat he was leading where he ended up being led himself.
JP did an interview with the Sunday Times (UK) where he put all of his recent personal issues on the table. He does not shy away from that one bit if he thinks it will be helpful for his audience to know. Of course the writer twisted everything he said in a pathetic attempt to defame him, so that may be the last one he does for awhile and I can't blame him.
Honestly I believe it is professionally unethical for Dr. Mate to speculate on Peterson's mental health. JP is frequently asked to speculate on other people's mental health and he never takes the bait. A good psychogist should know better than that. BK wouldn't even commment on JPs philosophy without knowing more, and that's intellectual and professional integrity.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
That is precisely the point ... who among us is not without shadow issues, both individual and collective, as they are inextricable. Thus, as far as the original post is concerned, I'm inclined to say 'so what' !
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Ashvin ... I too doubt that anyone here knows to what extent GM has delved into JP's body of work. But his comment about JP supposedly not speaking out against atrocities committed in the name of Christian fundamentalism leads one to conclude that his understanding of JP's ideas does not go very deep at all, and that this all too facile point is not without some preconceived confirmation bias.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Jordan Peterson is an admirable, courageous man. Like anyone, he has issues. Some of those issues might be what led him to obsess over the psychology of totalitarian movements, among other things, in which case thank God for his issues, since they drove him to insights we need. Dr. Maté undoubtedly has issues as well. Perhaps some of his make him unreceptive to some of the good ideas that Dr. Peterson has to offer, or make it difficult for him to get past a slanted impression of Peterson as a person.
If some decent people disagree with you or dislike you, does that mean that you're wrong, or does it merely point to the usefulness of what you're doing?
Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:22 pm
Ashvin ... I too doubt that anyone here knows to what extent GM has delved into JP's body of work. But his comment about JP supposedly not speaking out against atrocities committed in the name of Christian fundamentalism leads one to conclude that his understanding of JP's ideas does not go very deep at all, and that this all too facile point is not without some preconceived confirmation bias.
I did not get to that part, but yeah that is a very shallow claim, and it seems to confirm my suspicion that a lot of these impressions of Peterson are related to the Western-Eastern metaphysical/spiritual divide. That is also correlated with politically right-left leanings, perhaps even extroversion-introversion (in a much more complex way), but I think the metaphysical/spiritual dimension is the most influential on our subconscious perspectives.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
