There are many versions of this story in quite disparate traditions. In the Haudenosaunee story the most feared and most brutal chief of among the warring tribes is given the status of chief-among-chiefs under the new pact of peace. In the "love thy enemy" Christian version of Saint Francis and the Wolf of Gubbio the wolf who had terrorized the margins of the town is tamed with the promise of being loved, brought to live in the town and adored by the people who feed him. But it's never without contradictions. As the Eskimos say, "Gifts turn wolves into dogs." Bottom line: the search for balance between domesticated and wild, responsible and free is an ongoing aspect of creation, which is both constructive and destructive.SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:02 pm"Repressed anger", storing and channeling energy of cold rage (instead of constantly blowing your fuse in 'outrage culture', which is very toxic especially as mass culture) is very deep and interesting dynamic, deep source of creativity. So I don't take Mate's view on JP as negative and hostile, on the contrary this brings to mind this version of the story of two wolves:AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:34 pmWell, this sentiment baffles my mind. It cannot be reasonably inferred from any of his full-length lectures or interviews. Even when he started to 'fly off the handle' a bit in those, he quickly regained composure. And that seems to be the consensus by everyone who speaks with him, such as Dr. Gad Saad (who, for my money, is a much more insightful psychologist than Dr. Mate, but that's a separate issue).Eugene I wrote: ↑Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:54 pm I would agree with Gabor. What strikes me about Peterson is not what he is saying, but how he is saying it, his psychological and spiritual/energetic state. He speaks about meaning, faith, love and peace, but the spiritual "wavelength" of this message is so toxic, it's full of rage and anger and that is why I just cannot listen to him. But that's only my personal opinion
JP has been on a fascinating spiritual journey, with wonderful ability to share some fruits of his journey with millions of people in a positive way.
Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
JP is high tension, which we hear in his voice and he's open and honest about that himself. "Anger" is very generic and simplifying term for that tension, but not necessarily untrue. It's also true that JP has been criticized by other Jungian therapists for not being in therapy himself, as is the custom. Shadow is not only a simple mechanism, but an endless layering of worlds to explore in art, shamanic journeys etc. to balance light and darkness. JP has tripped bipolar "spiritual alchemy" in epic big way, after the height of his speaking tour around the world, speaking from the flow zone to hooked audience almost every day, to the low of his benzo addiction and his horrible withdrawal struggle. Benzo addiction was not personal level but collective level shadow stuff of western psychotherapy, which JP professionally represents in his own way.Eugene I wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:45 pmThere are still other not so damaging ways (in addition to repressing or "blowing your fuse in 'outrage culture'"), such as is facing, embracing and healing the shadow by finding other ways to release their energies without damaging actions or "blowing our fuses". For example, non-dual practices of releasing and getting insights into the depths of our shadows while maintaining the state of lucid awareness, or letting them to express themselves in art or creativity, or there may be other ways.SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Tue Mar 02, 2021 7:02 pm "Repressed anger", storing and channeling energy of cold rage (instead of constantly blowing your fuse in 'outrage culture', which is very toxic especially as mass culture) is very deep and interesting dynamic, deep source of creativity. So I don't take Mate's view on JP as negative and hostile, on the contrary this brings to mind this version of the story of two wolves:
There is important difference between worrying and caring, but either case, the source of "anger" is often the perceived injustice and unnecessary suffering in the world and underlying empathy and compassion. Healer's obsession is in tension with advaita full acceptance of 'as is'; which needs to accept also the tension and obsession to heal, accept our caring and the various dualisms etc. relations of care.
Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
It is said that "expectations are the formulae for resentments."There is important difference between worrying and caring, but either case, the source of "anger" is often the perceived injustice and unnecessary suffering in the world and underlying empathy and compassion. Healer's obsession is in tension with advaita full acceptance of 'as is'; which needs to accept also the tension and obsession to heal, accept our caring and the various dualisms etc. relations of care.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
Thanks for the welcome.Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Hi Peter ... Nice to see you checking in to the new venue. Not sure what you're referring to that JP 'doesn't get', since there are others here who clearly feel that he 'gets' quite a bit. Perhaps you could be more specific.
I meant that JP doesn't 'get' philosophy, mysticism or truth. From your quote it seems that Gabor does.
Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
And you're basing that on what, your extensive review of all his lectures or the fact that his philosophy doesn't agree with yours?Peter Jones wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:48 pmThanks for the welcome.Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Hi Peter ... Nice to see you checking in to the new venue. Not sure what you're referring to that JP 'doesn't get', since there are others here who clearly feel that he 'gets' quite a bit. Perhaps you could be more specific.
I meant that JP doesn't 'get' philosophy, mysticism or truth. From your quote it seems that Gabor does.
" It is only because of the feebleness of our organs and paucity of imagination that we do not see ourselves to be in a fairy world."
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Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
Is it not obvious that JP doesn't understand philosophy or mysticism? It doesn't take much expertise to spot this. I'm basing my view on what seems perfectly obvious.AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:01 pmAnd you're basing that on what, your extensive review of all his lectures or the fact that his philosophy doesn't agree with yours?Peter Jones wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:48 pmThanks for the welcome.Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:06 pm
Hi Peter ... Nice to see you checking in to the new venue. Not sure what you're referring to that JP 'doesn't get', since there are others here who clearly feel that he 'gets' quite a bit. Perhaps you could be more specific.
I meant that JP doesn't 'get' philosophy, mysticism or truth. From your quote it seems that Gabor does.
That little extract from Gabor reveals his much better understanding.
- Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
Peter ... so what is your take then on the latest JP topic thread, wherein it seems your claim is not so obvious ... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=203
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
Not only is not obvious, it's the exact opposite conclusion I reach when considering his body of work. With regards to philosophy at least, who knows or cares about "mysticism", whatever that means.Peter Jones wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:36 pmIs it not obvious that JP doesn't understand philosophy or mysticism? It doesn't take much expertise to spot this. I'm basing my view on what seems perfectly obvious.AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:01 pmAnd you're basing that on what, your extensive review of all his lectures or the fact that his philosophy doesn't agree with yours?Peter Jones wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 1:48 pm
Thanks for the welcome.
I meant that JP doesn't 'get' philosophy, mysticism or truth. From your quote it seems that Gabor does.
That little extract from Gabor reveals his much better understanding.
" It is only because of the feebleness of our organs and paucity of imagination that we do not see ourselves to be in a fairy world."
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Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
Ah. If this is your approach I wouldn't expect you to understand what I;m talking about.
I wonder what brings you to this forum, Speaking roughly, mysticism is non-dualism, which is what BK is selling.
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Re: Gabor Maté on Jordan Peterson
Not my thing, I'm afraid, since I don't want read his book. I agree with much of what he says about politics and psychology, but he is not a philosopher and doesn't appear to understand the subject. I find his views on religion shallow and naive. I do I admire his willingness to stand up and be counted on some difficult issues. .Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:39 pm Peter ... so what is your take then on the latest JP topic thread, wherein it seems your claim is not so obvious ... viewtopic.php?f=5&t=203