The latest interview with Brand ties in very well with what was being discussed re: Nietzsche and metaphysics on another thread. JP raises an interesting point that I had never heard before - Nietzsche realized that the Roman Catholic church had created a totalizing interpretive framework for life which disciplined its adherents. That discipline was a critical component in our collective spiritual maturation from childhood to adulthood. As JP put it, Nietzsche believed some form of 'enslavement' to a system of thought was first required for maturation and freedom.
The key for Nietzsche was that we should conceive the enslavement/discipline as a tool towards higher spiritual aims rather than an end-in-itself, the latter being what post-Reformation churches did all too often. Authentic sacrifice should be done voluntarily and consciously with the expectation, i.e. faith, that it will allow us to organize our being at a higher level which will make us of more use to ourselves and others. Brand then opens up a great metaphysical discussion around 18 min. mark of ineffability 'vs.' practicality of metaphysical ideas; how we should seek overlap between the two. That is as far I have gotten in the discussion so far, may post a few follow up comments later.
The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
Alright well a few minutes more into the interview and Brand brings up Edinger (one of the most insightful commentators on Jung), the evolution of OT God to NT figure of Christ, and JP starts talking about Jung's Answer to Job. Needless to say, this one is another must-watch.
Dana, let me know when you have a quote from BK's DJM that we can post on this YouTube video! I may look for one tomorrow as well.
Dana, let me know when you have a quote from BK's DJM that we can post on this YouTube video! I may look for one tomorrow as well.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
OK, will get around to watching this chat tomorrow, and see if any ideas for DJM references come to mind.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
-
Soul_of_Shu
- Posts: 2023
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:48 pm
- Contact:
Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
I really enjoyed this encounter, Russell being as engaging as ever, touching upon some truly profound and moving themes, if not committing to explicating what the ontic fundamental might be, all cut far too short because it was past Russell's bedtime
Surely a one-on-one chat with Bernardo would delve further into the ontological aspect, and address Jung's ideas from a quite different approach, as this talk, understandably, was more focused on relational archetypal dynamics, and the meaning of sacrifice, and transcendental devotion, rather than explicating a contemporary counter-materialist ontology upon which to build a collective ethos. Nevertheless, I suspect that JP might also be able to coax BK into a discussion more along the lines of this one with RB. Anyway, I'm not yet sure how to tie a DJM lure into enticing JP toward engaging with BK in that metaphysical context. But I'll continue to ponder an apt teaser, while creatively visualizing such an intriguing encounter into being ~ albeit perhaps better suited to JP's podcast, rather than Mikhaila's.
Surely a one-on-one chat with Bernardo would delve further into the ontological aspect, and address Jung's ideas from a quite different approach, as this talk, understandably, was more focused on relational archetypal dynamics, and the meaning of sacrifice, and transcendental devotion, rather than explicating a contemporary counter-materialist ontology upon which to build a collective ethos. Nevertheless, I suspect that JP might also be able to coax BK into a discussion more along the lines of this one with RB. Anyway, I'm not yet sure how to tie a DJM lure into enticing JP toward engaging with BK in that metaphysical context. But I'll continue to ponder an apt teaser, while creatively visualizing such an intriguing encounter into being ~ albeit perhaps better suited to JP's podcast, rather than Mikhaila's.Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
Yeah that was way too short. I have also been too lazy to go through DJM for a teaser quote... I am working my way up to it thoughSoul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 3:11 pm I really enjoyed this encounter, Russell being as engaging as ever, touching upon some truly profound and moving themes, if not committing to explicating what the ontic fundamental might be, all cut far too short because it was past Russell's bedtime
The crucial link may end up being Curt Jaimungal's TOE show, since he has interviewed both Tammy and BK now and I am sure JP is not far away. Hopefully our thought visualizations manifest this convo into being soon!"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Soul_of_Shu
- Posts: 2023
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:48 pm
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Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
Finally I've been revisiting DJM for some teasers to tempt JP into a chat with BK, and clearly the entire appendix, titled 'The Fall' is right up JP's alley, and I'm sure could stimulate a long conversation on the nuanced meaning therein. But in the interest of keeping it short enough to insert into the youtube comments, the final paragraphs of the book might best suffice ...AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:31 pmI have also been too lazy to go through DJM for a teaser quote... I am working my way up to it though
'We fell when the forbidden fruit gave us the ability to create internal narratives about what should have been and what might yet be. We've become addicted to using these self-manufactured alternatives to struggle against what is. And such futile struggle is what generates all psychological suffering.
Yet, it is the same struggle that sharpens our consciousness and enables us to render a service to God. Each problem "forces us to greater consciousness" (Modern Man in Search of a Soul, page 99); each helps us help God. After all, the tree is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not only evil. Through this knowledge of good ~ the re-representation of creation on the mirror of self-reflection ~ we help God become aware of itself. Ours are indeed sacrificial lives, therein residing their profound meaning.'
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
-
Soul_of_Shu
- Posts: 2023
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:48 pm
- Contact:
Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
FYI ... now inserted into the comments from the following clip ...
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
That's a really good one. If we can also stick in a sentence or passage which mentions Jung by name, that would be even better.Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:23 pmFinally I've been revisiting DJM for some teasers to tempt JP into a chat with BK, and clearly the entire appendix, titled 'The Fall' is right up JP's alley, and I'm sure could stimulate a long conversation on the nuanced meaning therein. But in the interest of keeping it short enough to insert into the youtube comments, the final paragraphs of the book might best suffice ...AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 11:31 pmI have also been too lazy to go through DJM for a teaser quote... I am working my way up to it though
'We fell when the forbidden fruit gave us the ability to create internal narratives about what should have been and what might yet be. We've become addicted to using these self-manufactured alternatives to struggle against what is. And such futile struggle is what generates all psychological suffering.
Yet, it is the same struggle that sharpens our consciousness and enables us to render a service to God. Each problem "forces us to greater consciousness" (Modern Man in Search of a Soul, page 99); each helps us help God. After all, the tree is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not only evil. Through this knowledge of good ~ the re-representation of creation on the mirror of self-reflection ~ we help God become aware of itself. Ours are indeed sacrificial lives, therein residing their profound meaning.'
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
Dana, you may want to visit this link and post a question relating to BK - https://www.thinkspot.com/discourse/w3u ... 021/b6mtwx
JP is taking questions for an upcoming Q&A session. Here is mine (probably included way too much... but maybe he will bite):
Q: Does Carl Jung's metaphysical idealism, i.e. all is psychic activity, combined with Rudolf Steiner's epistemology, i.e. a shared realm of Thinking-Ideation makes individual consciousness truly universal and capable of shared ontic meaning, overcome Kant's ontic-epistemic (noumenon-phenomenon) divide? If not that, then what if anything does, and do you see a relation between Kant's divide and modern nihilism?
For consideration in context of the question:
'We fell when the forbidden fruit gave us the ability to create internal narratives about what should have been and what might yet be. We've become addicted to using these self-manufactured alternatives to struggle against what is. And such futile struggle is what generates all psychological suffering.
Yet, it is the same struggle that sharpens our consciousness and enables us to render a service to God. Each problem "forces us to greater consciousness" (Modern Man in Search of a Soul, page 99); each helps us help God. After all, the tree is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not only evil. Through this knowledge of good ~ the re-representation of creation on the mirror of self-reflection ~ we help God become aware of itself. Ours are indeed sacrificial lives, therein residing their profound meaning.'
-Bernardo Kastrup, Decoding Jung's Metaphysics (2021)
JP is taking questions for an upcoming Q&A session. Here is mine (probably included way too much... but maybe he will bite):
Q: Does Carl Jung's metaphysical idealism, i.e. all is psychic activity, combined with Rudolf Steiner's epistemology, i.e. a shared realm of Thinking-Ideation makes individual consciousness truly universal and capable of shared ontic meaning, overcome Kant's ontic-epistemic (noumenon-phenomenon) divide? If not that, then what if anything does, and do you see a relation between Kant's divide and modern nihilism?
For consideration in context of the question:
'We fell when the forbidden fruit gave us the ability to create internal narratives about what should have been and what might yet be. We've become addicted to using these self-manufactured alternatives to struggle against what is. And such futile struggle is what generates all psychological suffering.
Yet, it is the same struggle that sharpens our consciousness and enables us to render a service to God. Each problem "forces us to greater consciousness" (Modern Man in Search of a Soul, page 99); each helps us help God. After all, the tree is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, not only evil. Through this knowledge of good ~ the re-representation of creation on the mirror of self-reflection ~ we help God become aware of itself. Ours are indeed sacrificial lives, therein residing their profound meaning.'
-Bernardo Kastrup, Decoding Jung's Metaphysics (2021)
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
Re: The Metaphysics of Sacrifice - Mikhaila, Jordan and Russell Brand
Also I will like, agree, etc. with whatever you post and you can do the same for mine, so it looks like some other people are interested in hearing answers to our questions
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"