Bernardo's active brain comments

[Lou Gold]

But BK says that if the psychedelic experience is seen from across a dissociative membrain, it will appear as "physical" activity on the screen of perception.

And BK is largely speaking/communicating in the lingos of now, which are still predominantly pre-paradigm shift. This, of course, is a great dilemma that is often bridged only with poetry. In the words of Rumi:

“Out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and rightdoing,
there is a field. I’ll meet you there.
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase “each other”
doesn’t make any sense.
The breeze at dawn has secrets to tell you."

[findingblanks]

Yes, but regardless of being pre-paradigm shift, we can still say that BK's model is claiming that a first-person experience will have an appearance if encountered from another viewpoint.

[Lou Gold]

Yes, but regardless of being pre-paradigm shift, we can still say that BK's model is claiming that a first-person experience will have an appearance if encountered from another viewpoint.

I'm not sure that I'm following your drift. BK says there are 3 paths of knowing: logic; empirical experiment; and introspection. He then acknowledges that only introspection (an actual jumping in) will yield direct experience. I share my deep 'grok' with others who have had the direct experience but not with those who have merely arrived at its representation through analysis or experiment, both of which will depend on shared abstractions.

[findingblanks]

Yeah, and I think I've groked his point that what we see as the inanimate universe is the appearance of what it is like to be MaL.

He applies this to individual experience as well. Therefore an individual psychedelic experience could have an appearence across a dissociative boundary.

That is why I think it is strange and interesting that he puts so much emphasis on the the fact that we currently haven't evoked outer appearences for first person psychedelic experience.

[Lou Gold]

Yeah, and I think I've groked his point that what we see as the inanimate universe is the appearance of what it is like to be MaL.

He applies this to individual experience as well. Therefore an individual psychedelic experience could have an appearence across a dissociative boundary.

That is why I think it is strange and interesting that he puts so much emphasis on the the fact that we currently haven't evoked outer appearences for first person psychedelic experience.

I gotta say "I dunno!" in terms of a metaphysical model. As a storyteller and not a philosopher, I can report my first-person Santo Daime experience as: I saw a truly ineffable "dazzling darkness" out of which emerged first a point of light, then, in succession, the glowing symbol of a cross, then a figurine-like symbol of Jesus and then a figurine-like symbol of Mary, all of which jumped into my heart. This experience, which is now about 23 years old, has only grown stronger in me as a "rock of faith." On a more general level, I once walked to the local supermarket reciting the mantra, "Everything I see is a symbol of consciousness." By the time I had entered the market my perceptual experience had transformed to an "Oh WOW!" on par with a LSD trip. In this instance, my first person experience was loaded with outer appearances.

[findingblanks]

Yeah, your wonderful descriptions squares with how I understand BK's more general comments that a first person perspective will have an outer appearance when seen by another subject. This is why I figure BK should expect that at some point we will see more brain-body activity associated with such experiences.

[Lou Gold]

Yeah, your wonderful descriptions squares with how I understand BK's more general comments that a first person perspective will have an outer appearance when seen by another subject. This is why I figure BK should expect that at some point we will see more brain-body activity associated with such experiences.

I have no idea whether my trip-like experience would align with more or less brain activity. All I can say at the ordinary level of standing at the seashore is that when I quiet my thoughts, I definitely see more.

[Apanthropinist]

I have no idea whether my trip-like experience would align with more or less brain activity. All I can say at the ordinary level of standing at the seashore is that when I quiet my thoughts, I definitely see more.

Lou, if it is of any interest to you and you have the time and inclination, take a look at Dr Andrew Gallimore's course on psychedelic neuroscience:



Dr. Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, chemist, and pharmacologist interested in the relationship between psychedelic drugs, the brain, consciousness and the structure of reality. He is currently based at the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology.

http://www.buildingalienworlds.com/about.html

What psychedelics appear to do, and DMT in particular, is to turn off the inhibitory effects of Serotonin so that 'information' is processed much more deeply. They also lower the axon firing threshold in cortical columns which has the effect of creating more communication and association between columns and more importantly between ordinarily dissociated networks of columns.

In the ordinary 'waking' state, Serotonin (a neuromodulator & neurotransmitter) seems to gatekeep the level of information processing. So that when you see a tree, there is certain amount of information processed about 'tree' that is functional. Once that functional level is reached and 'tree' is recognised, Serotonin then inhibits further processing. It's entirely sensible for it to do this or we would be overwhelmed with the amount of perceptual information we receive and would not be able to function effectively, nor ensure our survival.

When we take a tryptamine based psychedelic (and other types), once through the blood brain barrier, which is very fussy about what it lets in yet opens the door wide to tryptamines, the tryptamine head straight for the Serotonin 5HT2A receptor and bind to it. When this happens the micro electron voltage threshold required for an axon to fire is lowered and the inhibitory effect is reduced. This is the action that allows for 'information' to be processed much more deeply and for columns and networks to associate more readily. There is a significant increase in connectivity across columns and networks and, strangely, a reduction in normal activity as seen in fMRI's.

The interesting part of this for me is in connection with Bernado's idea of the 'dissociated alter' as it ties in with the dissociation of network cortical columns in 'waking' mode but dissolves these dissociations in the presence of psychedelics and increases association. It is as if we are then able to perceive 'things' across the dissociative boundary in progressive degrees depending on dosage.

The mind blowing part of it is that when people take pure DMT, the brain appears to utterly change its configuration and instantly builds an entirely new world which is completely 'alien'. The brain effectively stops processing any information from 'this world' (perceptual at least, rather than altogether because the autonomous system still operates or we'd die) and seems to tune in to another world entirely. The research seems to show that this is literal.

One of Bernado's own criticisms of his theory (as he seems an honest fella) is the dissociative alter is the weakest part of his theory and relies on evidence gained from Dissociative Identity Disorder. It seems to me that there is something useful in looking at the neuroscience of psychedelics and how tryptamines dissolve dissociative cortical networks and increase association.

[Astra052]

I have no idea whether my trip-like experience would align with more or less brain activity. All I can say at the ordinary level of standing at the seashore is that when I quiet my thoughts, I definitely see more.

Lou, if it is of any interest to you and you have the time and inclination, take a look at Dr Andrew Gallimore's course on psychedelic neuroscience:



Dr. Gallimore is a computational neurobiologist, chemist, and pharmacologist interested in the relationship between psychedelic drugs, the brain, consciousness and the structure of reality. He is currently based at the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology.

http://www.buildingalienworlds.com/about.html

What psychedelics appear to do, and DMT in particular, is to turn off the inhibitory effects of Serotonin so that 'information' is processed much more deeply. They also lower the axon firing threshold in cortical columns which has the effect of creating more communication and association between columns and more importantly between ordinarily dissociated networks of columns.

In the ordinary 'waking' state, Serotonin (a neuromodulator & neurotransmitter) seems to gatekeep the level of information processing. So that when you see a tree, there is certain amount of information processed about 'tree' that is functional. Once that functional level is reached and 'tree' is recognised, Serotonin then inhibits further processing. It's entirely sensible for it to do this or we would be overwhelmed with the amount of perceptual information we receive and would not be able to function effectively, nor ensure our survival.

When we take a tryptamine based psychedelic (and other types), once through the blood brain barrier, which is very fussy about what it lets in yet opens the door wide to tryptamines, the tryptamine head straight for the Serotonin 5HT2A receptor and bind to it. When this happens the micro electron voltage threshold required for an axon to fire is lowered and the inhibitory effect is reduced. This is the action that allows for 'information' to be processed much more deeply and for columns and networks to associate more readily. There is a significant increase in connectivity across columns and networks and, strangely, a reduction in normal activity as seen in fMRI's.

The interesting part of this for me is in connection with Bernado's idea of the 'dissociated alter' as it ties in with the dissociation of network cortical columns in 'waking' mode but dissolves these dissociations in the presence of psychedelics and increases association. It is as if we are then able to perceive 'things' across the dissociative boundary in progressive degrees depending on dosage.

The mind blowing part of it is that when people take pure DMT, the brain appears to utterly change its configuration and instantly builds an entirely new world which is completely 'alien'. The brain effectively stops processing any information from 'this world' (perceptual at least, rather than altogether because the autonomous system still operates or we'd die) and seems to tune in to another world entirely. The research seems to show that this is literal.

One of Bernado's own criticisms of his theory (as he seems an honest fella) is the dissociative alter is the weakest part of his theory and relies on evidence gained from Dissociative Identity Disorder. It seems to me that there is something useful in looking at the neuroscience of psychedelics and how tryptamines dissolve dissociative cortical networks and increase association.

Seems like Huxley was on to something!

[Apanthropinist]

Seems like Huxley was on to something!

He was certainly 'on' something! But yeah, agreed. Seems to me that the intersection of psychedelics, neuroscience and idealist philosophy (and Jungian psychology) has tremendous potential to alter our current paradigm on a much deeper, more positive path. I feel that psychedelics have the potential to be the glue that can facilitate the meeting of neuroscience and philosophy. Perhaps, even, to be the coup de grace to materialism? Maybe that's my optimism...