On the Nihilism of Belief

[AshvinP]

I am by no means an optimist. I'm more of a "sit back and enjoy the ride" kind of guy. It is easy to misunderstand what I wrote without context. I still tackle the unknown with a vengeance. After years of fine tuning my perceptions I can tell the difference, for me, when it is a healthy endeavor or I'm beating my head against the wall. I used to think beating my head against the wall was all there was. That going around in a total funk and believing if there was a God he/she/it was a nasty bastard with a really sick sense of humor. Once I came to terms with my personal limitations I was good to go.

That's good. To be clear, my main message with respect to Descartes-Kant and pessimism-nihilism in the posts has been that we need to get past the idea that approaching the "unknowable" is impossible. It is a deeply ingrained mental habit which makes sure we never even try. It sounds like you are past that. I am optimistic because I have faith that if we genuinely seek, we will find.

I apologize. There are so many terms on these pages I am unfamiliar with. That is one thing I am enjoying about being on this blog. Not the terms. Being exposed to a new belief system. I've been envolved in so many systems with their own terminology. That always allows for faster, more efficient communication for people within the group but has the opposite impact on people outside the group. So in my case I am not stupid, just ignorant. Many times I have wished that I could climb inside the mind of a deaf and dumb person and hear what their internal dialogue is like. Or the mind of the poorest of the poor where their only priority is survival. Some on these pages talk about their internal suffering as if they have a right not to have it. Like it's unfair while completely ignoring the plight of most of the people on this planet. And that is not limited to here on this blog. I have always been amazed how myopic human beings can be with all of our intelligence and perception. I have seen many in my life where my worst day is still far better than their best day but I still have the capacity to feel sorry for myself. When mind at large initiated creating separate personalities maybe that was one of the intended consequences.

It's funny you mention that - I used to consider myself philosophically inept re: terminology, and relatively light on the jargon. But now I can see how more and more of the terminology has creeped into my posts/articles. Which I do consider a negative if it gets too excessive.

As for your comment in bold, I am not sure what you are referring to specifically on this forum, but that does seem to be a trend in Western society at large.

[Ed Konderla]

That's good. To be clear, my main message with respect to Descartes-Kant and pessimism-nihilism in the posts has been that we need to get past the idea that approaching the "unknowable" is impossible. It is a deeply ingrained mental habit which makes sure we never even try. It sounds like you are past that. I am optimistic because I have faith that if we genuinely seek, we will find.

I apologize. There are so many terms on these pages I am unfamiliar with. That is one thing I am enjoying about being on this blog. Not the terms. Being exposed to a new belief system. I've been envolved in so many systems with their own terminology. That always allows for faster, more efficient communication for people within the group but has the opposite impact on people outside the group. So in my case I am not stupid, just ignorant. Many times I have wished that I could climb inside the mind of a deaf and dumb person and hear what their internal dialogue is like. Or the mind of the poorest of the poor where their only priority is survival. Some on these pages talk about their internal suffering as if they have a right not to have it. Like it's unfair while completely ignoring the plight of most of the people on this planet. And that is not limited to here on this blog. I have always been amazed how myopic human beings can be with all of our intelligence and perception. I have seen many in my life where my worst day is still far better than their best day but I still have the capacity to feel sorry for myself. When mind at large initiated creating separate personalities maybe that was one of the intended consequences.

It's funny you mention that - I used to consider myself philosophically inept re: terminology, and relatively light on the jargon. But now I can see how more and more of the terminology has creeped into my posts/articles. Which I do consider a negative if it gets too excessive.

As for your comment in bold, I am not sure what you are referring to specifically on this forum, but that does seem to be a trend in Western society at large.

I'm sure I have ADD. My mind races ahead and I am typing while I'm thinking 4 subjects in the future so many times my comments have a lack of continuity. One thing I see in many of the opinions stated here is the need to believe that mind at large is rooting for "our side". That there is some magical event will occur and humanity will make some cognitive leap and make all of the potential bad stuff go away. I have many Christian friends and family. There is always a percentage of them that are counting on the Rapture to whisk them away to heaven. I have become to believe this is some kind of coping or avoidance mechanism that allows them to escape the fear of their own death. They are always wrong. I see some here that seem to have that same need. So regardless of the evidence they want to believe they are immune or should be to the coming train wreck I see coming. So far from being optimistic I am convinced we are about to "Reap the whirlwind" and I just hope I live long enough to witness it.

[AshvinP]

I apologize. There are so many terms on these pages I am unfamiliar with. That is one thing I am enjoying about being on this blog. Not the terms. Being exposed to a new belief system. I've been envolved in so many systems with their own terminology. That always allows for faster, more efficient communication for people within the group but has the opposite impact on people outside the group. So in my case I am not stupid, just ignorant. Many times I have wished that I could climb inside the mind of a deaf and dumb person and hear what their internal dialogue is like. Or the mind of the poorest of the poor where their only priority is survival. Some on these pages talk about their internal suffering as if they have a right not to have it. Like it's unfair while completely ignoring the plight of most of the people on this planet. And that is not limited to here on this blog. I have always been amazed how myopic human beings can be with all of our intelligence and perception. I have seen many in my life where my worst day is still far better than their best day but I still have the capacity to feel sorry for myself. When mind at large initiated creating separate personalities maybe that was one of the intended consequences.

It's funny you mention that - I used to consider myself philosophically inept re: terminology, and relatively light on the jargon. But now I can see how more and more of the terminology has creeped into my posts/articles. Which I do consider a negative if it gets too excessive.

As for your comment in bold, I am not sure what you are referring to specifically on this forum, but that does seem to be a trend in Western society at large.

I'm sure I have ADD. My mind races ahead and I am typing while I'm thinking 4 subjects in the future so many times my comments have a lack of continuity. One thing I see in many of the opinions stated here is the need to believe that mind at large is rooting for "our side". That there is some magical event will occur and humanity will make some cognitive leap and make all of the potential bad stuff go away. I have many Christian friends and family. There is always a percentage of them that are counting on the Rapture to whisk them away to heaven. I have become to believe this is some kind of coping or avoidance mechanism that allows them to escape the fear of their own death. They are always wrong. I see some here that seem to have that same need. So regardless of the evidence they want to believe they are immune or should be to the coming train wreck I see coming. So far from being optimistic I am convinced we are about to "Reap the whirlwind" and I just hope I live long enough to witness it.

Yes, that rapture mentality is exactly what I am criticizing - that our salvation is in an escape from-the-world. The most meaningful level of focus is the individual scale - priority #1 should always be to get our own spiritual houses in order. Later, if we are successful with priority #1, we may be fortunate enough to help others beings as well. "Train wrecks", like many material events, are a matter of perspective. Hard times are coming as they always do, but our existence is not limited by the normally conceived spatial-temporal dimensions. Unless we know our-Selves as much greater than that, we will remain in the clutches of nihilism regardless of what happens in the material world around us.

[Soul_of_Shu]

I have become to believe ...

This wording somehow seems key here, so I'm curious how is it that the believing in a coming train wreck, presumably involving some massively dire consequences, adding exponentially to the suffering, must somehow prevail over the believing in a healing process, on a collective scale, mutually overcoming the forsaking of our essential nature as the same conscious unicity, so much at the root of the wrecking/suffering? If one can heal, why can't anyone heal, and by extension why can't everyone heal, except insofar as this is believed to be unattainable? This is not to deny that a certain amount of suffering is surely entailed in such a healing process, en masse, just that they are not mutually exclusive.

[Ed Konderla]

I have become to believe ...

This wording somehow seems key here, so I'm curious how is it that the believing in a coming train wreck, presumably involving some massively dire consequences, adding exponentially to the suffering, must somehow prevail over the believing in a healing process, on a collective scale, mutually overcoming the forsaking of our essential nature as the same conscious unicity, so much at the root of the wrecking/suffering? If one can heal, why can't anyone heal, and by extension why can't everyone heal, except insofar as this is believed to be unattainable? This is not to deny that a certain amount of suffering is surely entailed in such a healing process, en masse, just that they are not mutually exclusive.

One outcome, the train wreck, is based on empirical evidence pointing to a predicted outcome. The "healing" is contrary to evidence and points to a fantasy or faith. There have been a million books written as such. As to the suffering. A huge percentage of the population already suffers so a train wreck might bring them relief through death. The folks writing on this blog and Bernardo's followers have almost certainly never suffered at the same tangible level. That is why they can with a straight face hold their angst up as suffering while by denying the tangible suffering others if not directly but by omission.

[Soul_of_Shu]

One outcome, the train wreck, is based on empirical evidence pointing to a predicted outcome. The "healing" is contrary to evidence and points to a fantasy or faith. There have been a million books written as such. As to the suffering. A huge percentage of the population already suffers so a train wreck might bring them relief through death. The folks writing on this blog and Bernardo's followers have almost certainly never suffered at the same tangible level. That is why they can with a straight face hold their angst up as suffering while by denying the tangible suffering others if not directly but by omission.

So, in the case of this alter, being raped and deeply traumatized as a child doesn't count? Nor does the revelation of one's essential nature, which I don't view as being inherently inaccessible to anyone, as being integral to the healing? And who here can pretend to know what suffering any psyche has endured, if a multiplicity of alternate lifetimes is factored in? As mentioned, I tend to keep an open mind.

[Ed Konderla]

One outcome, the train wreck, is based on empirical evidence pointing to a predicted outcome. The "healing" is contrary to evidence and points to a fantasy or faith. There have been a million books written as such. As to the suffering. A huge percentage of the population already suffers so a train wreck might bring them relief through death. The folks writing on this blog and Bernardo's followers have almost certainly never suffered at the same tangible level. That is why they can with a straight face hold their angst up as suffering while by denying the tangible suffering others if not directly but by omission.

So, in the case of this alter, being raped and deeply traumatized as a child doesn't count? Nor does the revelation of one's essential nature, which I don't view as being inherently inaccessible to anyone, as being integral to the healing? And who here can pretend to know what suffering any psyche has endured, if a multiplicity of alternate lifetimes is factored in? As mentioned, I tend to keep an open mind.

As far as I am concerned the nature of your response defines the issue perfectly.

[AshvinP]

One outcome, the train wreck, is based on empirical evidence pointing to a predicted outcome. The "healing" is contrary to evidence and points to a fantasy or faith. There have been a million books written as such. As to the suffering. A huge percentage of the population already suffers so a train wreck might bring them relief through death. The folks writing on this blog and Bernardo's followers have almost certainly never suffered at the same tangible level. That is why they can with a straight face hold their angst up as suffering while by denying the tangible suffering others if not directly but by omission.

So, in the case of this alter, being raped and deeply traumatized as a child doesn't count? Nor does the revelation of one's essential nature, which I don't view as being inherently inaccessible to anyone, as being integral to the healing? And who here can pretend to know what suffering any psyche has endured, if a multiplicity of alternate lifetimes is factored in? As mentioned, I tend to keep an open mind.

As far as I am concerned the nature of your response defines the issue perfectly.

So you think a "train wreck" is a good thing for humanity? I should have titled the post "On the Nihilism of Ed Konderla" then.

[Soul_of_Shu]

As far as I am concerned the nature of your response defines the issue perfectly.

Could you be more specific? Another take to offer is that insofar as any given individual's healing and the attendant revelation don't happen in this version of now, then upon death of this corporeal form, if a psyche just exchanges one corporeal experience for another, and any unresolved issues are just carried forward, it doesn't necessarily mean that in any given moment healing/revelation isn't possible. So while it can only happen individually, there is no end of opportunity for every individual, and doesn't preclude a process of mutually collective progress in that regard, if some morphic resonance attaining some unprecedented critical phase is taken into account. So I'm still not seeing how believing that this is not possible trumps believing that it is.

[Ed Konderla]

As far as the train wreck is concerned being good for humanity that requires there to be a correct outcome in a correct time line. I don't believe in either of those. In the west we have a priesthood that more and more is coming from the ranks of lawyers and therapists. This priesthood receives large sums of money to create a nobel victim class. As is in any church there is a competition to see who is the most holy and in this case who is the greater victim. The Warriors path does not allow for victims. In fact that is considered the biggest mistake one can make is to see yourself as a victim and to see anyone else as one. I won't bore you with the details. Now on the other hand we have a major part of the world's population thirsty, hungry and diseased and nobody cares about them. This creates a head in the freezer feet in the furnace situation. Throw in the mix the troubled state of the environment and economies of the world, pandemics and worst of all, human nature and the situation becomes very unstable. Now I do not think anything can fix this. In my perception the die is cast. Now this is only a bad outcome if one has a preconceived notion of what a correct outcome is. In the Warriors Path one only, only, only learns from hardship. So in one way one can say when the caca hits the fan school will be open with a vengeance. So my goal is to make sure all of my pencils are sharp, that I have plenty of paper in my bookbag and am ready as possible spiritually and physically when the doors of the school are thrown open.