Is a forest a sentient being?
Is a forest a sentient being?
Here are some interesting views from anthropological and legal perspectives on whether a rainforest is sentient. A modern animism seems to be emerging.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
A forest is the sentient being. Is it an individual alter of that, such that there is some ipseity it is like to be a forest, which one can say with certainty is not a human projection upon it, your guess is as good as mine.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
A lot to learn from indigenous traditions. Whether the forest is indeed sentient or not, it's better to relate to it "as if" it is sentient, even for the reasons of our own spiritual and ecological health.
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kanzas anymore" Dorothy
Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
New research is very challenging to many modern cultural assumptions. It would seem that we need a new animism. Does the 'ascent bias' of Western Civilization obscure or make difficult this realization?
The new research, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences this month, looked at maps of human habitation over the last 12,000 years and found that almost three-quarters of Earth's land had been sustainably shaped and managed by Indigenous or traditional societies during that time. This means that it isn't simply human presence in a landscape that drives environmental destruction.
"With rare exceptions, current biodiversity losses are caused not by human conversion or degradation of untouched ecosystems, but rather by the appropriation, colonization, and intensification of use in lands inhabited and used by prior societies," the study authors wrote.
The new research, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences this month, looked at maps of human habitation over the last 12,000 years and found that almost three-quarters of Earth's land had been sustainably shaped and managed by Indigenous or traditional societies during that time. This means that it isn't simply human presence in a landscape that drives environmental destruction.
"With rare exceptions, current biodiversity losses are caused not by human conversion or degradation of untouched ecosystems, but rather by the appropriation, colonization, and intensification of use in lands inhabited and used by prior societies," the study authors wrote.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
And.... can this "as if" be applied to all socio-cultural myths including dualism/non-dualism and materialism/idealism?
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
Exactly, at least that is what I choose to do. I do not take idealism or non-dualism religiously, they may turn out to be wrong and I'm open to such possibility. Yet, in the absence of the certainty of knowing, I'm adopting them provisionally "as if" they are true, because I believe they have practical benefits and present the best views, strategies and practices (IMO at least) for the further development on both individual and social levels.
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kanzas anymore" Dorothy
Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
Please elaborate. I'm not sure if get your drift. Is it like asking if humans or ecosystems are individual alters of M@L or God?Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:17 pm
A forest is the sentient being. Is it an individual alter of that, such that there is some ipseity it is like to be a forest, which one can say with certainty is not a human projection upon it, your guess is as good as mine.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
To rephrase, I'm not sure how one would tell if a singular alter-mode ipseity associated with a corporeal form, e.g. a squirrel, would also apply to a forest. And if that is believed to be the case, how can one know that is not our projection upon a forest? It seems one could say much the same thing about a backyard.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
Can you explain the role of ipseity in sentience? Bernardo says that bacteria may be sentient. Does that mean they have a sense of self? Or, looking in the expanded direction, does a planet or a sun or galaxy or M@L or God have a sense of self? Can it all be instinctive? I get confused by this ipseity connection to sentience. Can you clarify?Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:33 am
To rephrase, I'm not sure how one would tell if a singular alter-mode ipseity associated with a corporeal form, e.g. a squirrel, would also apply to a forest. And if that is believed to be the case, how can one know that is not our projection upon a forest? It seems one could say much the same thing about a backyard.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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Ed Konderla
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Re: Is a forest a sentient being?
My God what a small world. In the article he mentions the town Puyo. From 11/98 to 11/99 every 12 days I flew to Quito for a 2 day visit with my wife and then back to Puyo. From Puyo I then was driven to our Central Processing Facility where my main office was located. I also had offices at two other locations one being 25 miles out into the virgin rain forest accessible only by helicopter. The other was in Tena. I had responsibilities on that project all the way to Baeza where ARCO's pipe line tied into the SOTE which is the trans Ecuadorian pipeline that terminated in Esmeraldas.
I had been working in Hong Kong for 2.5 years, which I hated and had an opportunity to work on this project, the Villano Project , Ecuador. Google it. It is still considered one of the most if not the most environmentally responsible project in the world. ARCO was purchased by BP in 2000 and no longer exists. Villano I think is now owned by an Italian outfit and is still in production. Ecuador became my wife and my home and now we are both citizens. I spent many, many hours talking to the Indigenous through a translator in their homes to get their take on things. I spent many many hours walking on trails in the virgin rain forest and over it in helicopters. I spent many evenings sitting on top of a 40000 barrel storage tank in meditation and reflection looking at the volcano Cotopaxi in the distance. We employed many indigenous because at one point this project had over 5000 people working on it. So I got see them work and their reaction to what was a strange and confusing world. I rode a helicopter back with an indigenous corpse in a body bag next to me. Many hated using the showers in the man camps and would go out and bathe in a stream. Unfortunately for this guy a huge tree fell over and crushed him in the middle of a storm. They got him back to the drillsite where he struggled to live for 4 days but he finally succumbed to his injuries. They tried like hell to get a helicopter out but weather conditions prevented it. So when I read this article I can appreciate the narrative the writer is pushing but the problem with all narratives is they are extremely myopic and fail to capture the nuances and believe me there are many.
I had been working in Hong Kong for 2.5 years, which I hated and had an opportunity to work on this project, the Villano Project , Ecuador. Google it. It is still considered one of the most if not the most environmentally responsible project in the world. ARCO was purchased by BP in 2000 and no longer exists. Villano I think is now owned by an Italian outfit and is still in production. Ecuador became my wife and my home and now we are both citizens. I spent many, many hours talking to the Indigenous through a translator in their homes to get their take on things. I spent many many hours walking on trails in the virgin rain forest and over it in helicopters. I spent many evenings sitting on top of a 40000 barrel storage tank in meditation and reflection looking at the volcano Cotopaxi in the distance. We employed many indigenous because at one point this project had over 5000 people working on it. So I got see them work and their reaction to what was a strange and confusing world. I rode a helicopter back with an indigenous corpse in a body bag next to me. Many hated using the showers in the man camps and would go out and bathe in a stream. Unfortunately for this guy a huge tree fell over and crushed him in the middle of a storm. They got him back to the drillsite where he struggled to live for 4 days but he finally succumbed to his injuries. They tried like hell to get a helicopter out but weather conditions prevented it. So when I read this article I can appreciate the narrative the writer is pushing but the problem with all narratives is they are extremely myopic and fail to capture the nuances and believe me there are many.