Atlas & Jason Reza Jorjani ~ Metaphysics & Geopolitics

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.

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Soul_of_Shu
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Atlas & Jason Reza Jorjani ~ Metaphysics & Geopolitics

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

Given the potentially polarizing, controversial views of Jason Reza Jorjani and his 'Prometheism movement', as evidenced by his falling out with Jeffrey Mishlove, I'm somewhat hesitant to post this video. But I'm going with it as an example of how a nuanced confluence of metaphysics and geopolitics can be discussed without degenerating into disrespectful, polarized enmity ~ even as JRJ starts to get a tad triggered toward the end. However, if incendiary animosity is the direction any followup conversation takes, I will have to reconsider letting it continue, so please keep it in the spirit of forum fellowship, whereby it can end how the following conversation ends ... Atlas & Jason Reza Jorjani ~ Metaphysics & Geopolitics
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
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AshvinP
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Re: Atlas & Jason Reza Jorjani ~ Metaphysics & Geopolitics

Post by AshvinP »

This was a very good interview. It kind of perplexed me that Jorjani took so much exception to the idea that there could be a deep philosophical/metaphysical connection between Daoism, Buddhism or Zoroastrianism and the Abrahamic religions. In fact, he has said in other interviews with Mishlove that Zoroastrianism had a direct influence on the development of the Judeo-Christian traditions, which we see most in the opposition of Good and Evil, and I tend to agree with that.

It seems he is mostly concerned with the institutional forms of Judaism, Christianity and Islam which he views as constraining the mythological power of Prometheus and Atlas (although he also referenced the Hebrew commandments as being terrible). I would say that Christianity, in its Eastern Orthodox or even Roman Catholic form, struck a very healthy balance (for about 1200 years) between the Promethean spirit of an unrelenting push forward into the future and circumscribing that push into the future with humility, wisdom, ritual and tradition. Then came the Reformation and Renaissance and things took a pretty nasty turn, a turn which inevitably pulled the slats from under the metaphysical meaning of God.

Jorjani views that as a good thing in so far as it provides us the opportunity to undertake a "Spectral Revolution", as in "a spectre is haunting Europe", to reestablish the Promethean and Atlantean spirit in the modern world (and clearly there is a connection between Atlas and Christ, as they both bore the weight/sins of the world on their shoulders). I am much more hesitant to believe that is the proper path forward. Any system which abandons a Christo-centric approach seems to be the penultimate example of 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'.
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
SanteriSatama
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Re: Atlas & Jason Reza Jorjani ~ Metaphysics & Geopolitics

Post by SanteriSatama »

I agree wit JRJ hat "enlightened state" (superposition/pure potential/etc) is ethically neutral deconditioning of causal entanglements. Let's call that kenoma. The pleroma of kindness/pure love is according to JRJ just a projection. Yes, kind of. It's a choice, a surrender of a sort. Pleroma is actual and deeply sensual filling of all-between.

Relation between kenoma and pleroma, as suggested by the words, is a kind of breathing. I've heard also others say that emptying mind without opening heart can be painful and horrifying.

PS: Ashvin, what do you mean Christo-centric approach?
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Re: Atlas & Jason Reza Jorjani ~ Metaphysics & Geopolitics

Post by AshvinP »

SanteriSatama wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 10:39 pm PS: Ashvin, what do you mean Christo-centric approach?
An approach which centers around Christ as the quintessential archetype of Redemption through voluntary sacrifice and rebirth in His spirit.
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Atlas & Jason Reza Jorjani ~ Metaphysics & Geopolitics

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

Ashvin ... Thanks for taking the time to watch it, and giving your usual perceptive feedback, as I was a bit concerned that viewers may struggle with the interviewing style, and give up on it. 'Atlas' is not my favourite interviewer ~ a lot of pregnant pauses ~ but he does seem to have an intuitive grasp of the metaphysics that comes out as thoughtful and insightful when it does finally take word-form. And I like that he pushed back and held his own with the clearly adroit, polymath intellect of JRJ ~ who still sends a bit of a chill running down the spine when looking into his zealot-lit eyes. But the erudite knowledge of the history of our collective quest for transcendent wisdom that JRJ has to offer surely makes up for whatever misgivings I may feel
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
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AshvinP
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Location: USA

Re: Atlas & Jason Reza Jorjani ~ Metaphysics & Geopolitics

Post by AshvinP »

Soul_of_Shu wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:20 pm Ashvin ... Thanks for taking the time to watch it, and giving your usual perceptive feedback, as I was a bit concerned that viewers may struggle with the interviewing style, and give up on it. 'Atlas' is not my favourite interviewer ~ a lot of pregnant pauses ~ but he does seem to have an intuitive grasp of the metaphysics that comes out as thoughtful and insightful when it does finally take word-form. And I like that he pushed back and held his own with the clearly adroit, polymath intellect of JRJ ~ who still sends a bit of a chill running down the spine when looking into his zealot-lit eyes. But the erudite knowledge of the history of our collective quest for transcendent wisdom that JRJ has to offer surely makes up for whatever misgivings I may feel
I know what you mean about JRJ. There is transcendent knowledge for sure but the "wisdom" is not all there. This passage from Barfield reminded me of him immediately:
Barfield wrote:And for this reason: that we live in an age when precisely the second conclusion ["thought and 'atom' consist of one and the same substance] is beginning to be arrived at - and from the wrong direction. Not from within the humanities, where the true motivation is the advance of knowledge, and of the wisdom into which it may turn; but from other quarters, where the sole motivation is the advance of technology and of the power over others that technology can confer. Indications of this, some less and some more subtle, are there for those who are awake to the signs of the times... [reference to book, Psychic Discoveries behind the Iron Curtain]... If so, you must have sensed, as I did, a sinister combination of physical research not only with experimental physiology, but also with experimental psychology and parapsychology. Such a concept as that of "psychotrons" is born in minds that are interested, not in changing or redeeming the force of their own mental habit, but in manipulating that of others. And this kind of research is now being financed by governments.
JRJ is the guy who acknowledges all of the above and concludes that the 'solution' is to triple-down on those efforts and use them for our political ends before 'they' use them for theirs.
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
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