DandelionSoul wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:37 pm
Also, I dunno if you read the notes, but I kinda thought SanteriSatama in particular might appreciate the use of the Fibonacci sequence in the timings of the verses, the syllable counts of the lines, and the time signatures.
Thanks for the hint. Sold, looking into that stuff now.
"It goes like this, the fourth, the fifth! The minor fall and the major lift!"
Self-referentiality is the art. Have you read 'Gödel, Escher, Bach'?
You call my name; I come to be--
A moment in eternity,
Anchored in the Void.
I feel my spirit coalesce,
Aware of my own consciousness,
Ego undestroyed.
Your summons flashes in the dark--
The faintest momentary spark--
But candlelight is frail.
The Nothing eats me from within,
The whirling chaos starts to spin,
And composition fails.
I feel my thoughts disintegrate.
I feel the Void eradicate
The structure of myself.
My soul, unmoored, begins to drift,
My words are smashed upon the rocks.
The center cannot hold.
The madness calls me farther still;
I feel myself forget to be
Nothing and Everything
Consumed and undone
Infinity blooming in shadow
Nullified in the All
Shattered in the terror of Divinity
You call my name; I come to be--
A moment in eternity.
Thanks for a true poem.
PS: Loved also what Keenan said in his interview with Joe Rogan about the phibo song. Phi and Fibonacci are present in all music and nature, and making a song deliberately pointing that out is "like a dick joke".
In most loving way, I think that goes for all math. Math is a dick joke.
Another great Tool song to check out below. I would say it has the most hypnotic pulse-beat I have ever come across in a song, especially when it goes into only instrumental section at 4:00 (I recommend listening with best pair of headphones and on as high a volume as your eardrums can withstand ). The lyrics are also very relevant to what we have been discussing re: Light and Shadow. And the title is reference to this:
A theoretical composition of chromosomes reserved for the next level of evolution of our genetic consciousness, and is meant to be on a more spiritual level. This is said to result in power and ability that far surpasses all mankind as we know it, and is a step towards 'perfection'. Our (99.9% of mankind) current genetic makeup contains 44 and 2 chromosomes.
"Join in my, join in my child,
And listen, I've been digging through my old numb shadow...
My shadow's
Shedding skin
I've been picking
Scabs again.
I'm down
Digging through
My old muscles
Looking for a clue.
I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own confused and insecure delusions
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in
My shadow.
My shadow.
Change is coming through my shadow.
My shadow's shedding skin
I've been picking
My scabs again.
Join in my
Join in my child
My shadow moves
Closer to meaning
I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own chaotic, insecure delusions.
I wanna feel the change consume me,
Feel the outside turning in.
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured in
My shadow
My shadow
Change is coming.
Now is my time.
Listen to my muscle memory.
Contemplate what I've been clinging to.
Forty-six & 2 ahead of me.
I choose to live and to grow,
Take and give and to move,
Learn and love and to cry,
Kill and die and to be paranoid and to lie,
Hate and fear and to do
What it takes to move through.
I choose to live and to lie,
Kill and give and to die,
Learn and love and to do
What it takes to step through.
See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty-six & 2 are just ahead of me."
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:49 pm
Self-referentiality is the art. Have you read 'Gödel, Escher, Bach'?
PS: Loved also what Keenan said in his interview with Joe Rogan about the phibo song. Phi and Fibonacci are present in all music and nature, and making a song deliberately pointing that out is "like a dick joke".
In most loving way, I think that goes for all math. Math is a dick joke.
I thought that would catch your attention, and Maynard is definitely someone who seems to get the playful nature of it all -- to write a song that's practically made to accompany a spiritual experience and then compare it to a dick joke is exactly the sort of irreverence you'd expect from someone who's seen too much of what's real to take himself overly seriously. Tool fans, on the other hand, can approach cult-like devotion.
I have read a significant amount of Godel Escher Bach, but I honestly found it difficult to follow in places. That was a few years ago, though, and I might owe it to myself to revisit it. I have read I Am a Strange Loop, also by Hofstadter, and found it absolutely brilliant, with my only real criticisms being that he sees our strange loopiness as fundamentally illusory (such that we only feel like there's top-down determination) and that he doesn't see how his empty materialism leads to the hard problem, no matter how sophisticated the feedback loops of the physical stuff involved.
AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:50 am
Another great Tool song to check out below. I would say it has the most hypnotic pulse-beat I have ever come across in a song, especially when it goes into only instrumental section at 4:00 (I recommend listening with best pair of headphones and on as high a volume as your eardrums can withstand ). The lyrics are also very relevant to what we have been discussing re: Light and Shadow. And the title is reference to this:
A theoretical composition of chromosomes reserved for the next level of evolution of our genetic consciousness, and is meant to be on a more spiritual level. This is said to result in power and ability that far surpasses all mankind as we know it, and is a step towards 'perfection'. Our (99.9% of mankind) current genetic makeup contains 44 and 2 chromosomes.
"Join in my, join in my child,
And listen, I've been digging through my old numb shadow...
My shadow's
Shedding skin
I've been picking
Scabs again.
I'm down
Digging through
My old muscles
Looking for a clue.
I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own confused and insecure delusions
For a piece to cross me over
Or a word to guide me in.
I wanna feel the changes coming down.
I wanna know what I've been hiding in
My shadow.
My shadow.
Change is coming through my shadow.
My shadow's shedding skin
I've been picking
My scabs again.
Join in my
Join in my child
My shadow moves
Closer to meaning
I've been crawling on my belly
Clearing out what could've been.
I've been wallowing in my own chaotic, insecure delusions.
I wanna feel the change consume me,
Feel the outside turning in.
I wanna feel the metamorphosis and
Cleansing I've endured in
My shadow
My shadow
Change is coming.
Now is my time.
Listen to my muscle memory.
Contemplate what I've been clinging to.
Forty-six & 2 ahead of me.
I choose to live and to grow,
Take and give and to move,
Learn and love and to cry,
Kill and die and to be paranoid and to lie,
Hate and fear and to do
What it takes to move through.
I choose to live and to lie,
Kill and give and to die,
Learn and love and to do
What it takes to step through.
See my shadow changing,
Stretching up and over me.
Soften this old armor.
Hoping I can clear the way
By stepping through my shadow,
Coming out the other side.
Step into the shadow.
Forty-six & 2 are just ahead of me."
Yes! This is an excellent song of theirs, too. If you listen to the Fear Inoculum album, I definitely recommend "Pneuma." The drumming, and the final instrumental in particular (the last four minutes or so), will take you right out of (into?) yourself.
[Verse 1]
We are spirit bound to this flesh
We go 'round, one foot nailed down
But bound to reach out and beyond this flesh
Become Pneuma
[Chorus]
We are will and wonder, bound to recall, remember
We are born of one breath, one word
We are all one spark, sun becoming
[Verse 2]
Child, wake up
Child, release the light
Wake up now, child
Wake up
Child, release the light
Wake up now, child
[Interlude]
Spirit
Spirit
Spirit
Spirit
[Verse 3]
Bound to this flesh
This guise, this mask, this dream
[Chorus]
Wake up, remember
We are born of one breath, one word
We are all one spark, sun becoming
[Outro]
Pneuma
Reach out and beyond
Wake up, remember
We are born of one breath, one word
We are all one spark, eyes full of wonder
DandelionSoul wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:15 am
Yes! This is an excellent song of theirs, too. If you listen to the Fear Inoculum album, I definitely recommend "Pneuma." The drumming, and the final instrumental in particular (the last four minutes or so), will take you right out of (into?) yourself.
[Verse 1]
We are spirit bound to this flesh
We go 'round, one foot nailed down
But bound to reach out and beyond this flesh
Become Pneuma
[Chorus]
We are will and wonder, bound to recall, remember
We are born of one breath, one word
We are all one spark, sun becoming
[Verse 2]
Child, wake up
Child, release the light
Wake up now, child
Wake up
Child, release the light
Wake up now, child
[Interlude]
Spirit
Spirit
Spirit
Spirit
[Verse 3]
Bound to this flesh
This guise, this mask, this dream
[Chorus]
Wake up, remember
We are born of one breath, one word
We are all one spark, sun becoming
[Outro]
Pneuma
Reach out and beyond
Wake up, remember
We are born of one breath, one word
We are all one spark, eyes full of wonder
Oh man, I am getting really excited to go back through all of these songs! The Pneuma lyrics could not fit any better with the essay. Also with this insight from Barfield that I referenced in T-M-T Part I essay. I'm really glad you made the Tool connection!
"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes.
So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." - John 3:8
The above verse is featured in Owen Barfield's essay which we examined in the second installment of the metamorphic essays, Incarnating the Christ. The Greek word translated as both "wind" and "Spirit" in the verse is pneuma. Barfield highlights it to show a clear example in the 1st century A.D. when an 'external' sensuous phenomenon, like the wind, was still experienced in connection to the inner life of man. Both meanings (and a third meaning of "breath") could be conveyed to the reader in the same word without any problem, in stark contrast to the modern era where, if I were to say, "the wind blows where it wishes... so it is with everyone born of the Wind", I would simply be ignored as a terrible writer of metaphors.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
DandelionSoul wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:00 am
I thought that would catch your attention, and Maynard is definitely someone who seems to get the playful nature of it all -- to write a song that's practically made to accompany a spiritual experience and then compare it to a dick joke is exactly the sort of irreverence you'd expect from someone who's seen too much of what's real to take himself overly seriously. Tool fans, on the other hand, can approach cult-like devotion.
Self-depreciative joking and funny banter make spiritual truly spiritual. I've heard that Ayahuasca shamans hold drinking contests of immense amounts of strongest brew. The guy who goes last "gröbledigröök" and can keep on cracking dirty jokes longest wins. Whether the story is true or not, you get the point.
I have read a significant amount of Godel Escher Bach, but I honestly found it difficult to follow in places. That was a few years ago, though, and I might owe it to myself to revisit it. I have read I Am a Strange Loop, also by Hofstadter, and found it absolutely brilliant, with my only real criticisms being that he sees our strange loopiness as fundamentally illusory (such that we only feel like there's top-down determination) and that he doesn't see how his empty materialism leads to the hard problem, no matter how sophisticated the feedback loops of the physical stuff involved.
I lost my copy og GEB before finishing it. The artistic stuff, especially the fun dialogues, were IMHO better than the more prosaic Strange Loop, which then grew into a beautiful love letter to Doug's wife. I got the impression that materialism is more like personal faith to him, he does not seem to be very much into debating metaphysics, and his personal faith doesn't in any way devalue the GEB jokes of "Playing this record will make the phonograph go KABOOM!" etc. His contribution has been very valuable towards developing post-Gödel coherent foundation of mathematics with a dick joke. It's got more bendy since I dived deep into the mathematical art of foundational motherfucking, and I don't know if the increased bendiness is a rejection or to tickle her better in the good spot. But I guess that's what you get from starting to build foundation from undecidability...
Last edited by SanteriSatama on Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Oh, there's so much going on in John 3's "water-and-wind" that it's worth a whole essay in itself, but I have always preferred the "terrible writer of metaphors" rendering of it as "...born of the Wind." The connection between wind, breath, and spirit is present across Hebrew, Greek, and Latin; we only preserve echoes of that connection in English, unfortunately for us.
DandelionSoul wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:02 am
Oh, there's so much going on in John 3's "water-and-wind" that it's worth a whole essay in itself, but I have always preferred the "terrible writer of metaphors" rendering of it as "...born of the Wind." The connection between wind, breath, and spirit is present across Hebrew, Greek, and Latin; we only preserve echoes of that connection in English, unfortunately for us.
Indeed, and if you are interested, I wrote a few essays on that metamorphic progression spoken of by Steiner, Barfield and others linked below - Metamorphoses of the Spirit.
SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:00 am
Self-depreciative joking and funny banter make spiritual truly spiritual. I've heard that Ayahuasca shamans hold drinking contests of immense amounts of strongest brew. The guy who goes last "gröbledigröök" and can keep on cracking dirty jokes longest wins. Whether the story is true or not, you get the point.
I definitely do! I don't know your level of familiarity with the various American church cultures, but where I grew up, it's common in Evangelical culture to participate in a kind of performative humor, and it always feels a little shallow. It's done to project an image (one that the participants are trying to internalize) that stuffy fundamentalists can have fun and find the humor in their religion, too, but they're so scared of offending God that there's an underlying nervousness to the whole thing. I've noticed that spiritual teachers from other traditions -- even other Christian traditions -- often have a genuine humor about them, and I suspect that's because at some point on the path, a kind of maturity happens that involves letting go of the need to appear spiritually mature.
I lost my copy og GEB before finishing it. The artistic stuff, especially the fun dialogues, were IMHO better than the more prosaic Strange Loop, which then grew into a beautiful love letter to Doug's wife. I got the impression that materialism is more like personal faith to him, he does not seem to be very much into debating metaphysics, and his personal faith doesn't in any way devalue the GEB jokes of "Playing this record will make the phonograph go KABOOM!" etc. His contribution has been very valuable towards developing post-Gödel coherent foundation of mathematics with a dick joke. It's got more bendy since I dived deep into the mathematical art of foundational motherfucking, and I don't know if the increased bendiness is a rejection or to tickle her better in the good spot. But I guess that's what you get from starting to build foundation from undecidability...
I did enjoy the illustrative stories in GEB, for sure. It was the nuts and bolts of the conceptual material where he lost me, and that's honestly my shortcoming -- Hofstadter ties so many threads together from so many disciplines that I found my head spinning trying to keep up. Despite being a polymath whose overarching project is ostensibly very serious subject material (it seems to me nothing less than an analysis of the structure of souls), he has that same wry humor about him, and I think my takeaway from all of this is that it's a mistake of immaturity to confuse seriousness for passion.
