What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.

Moderator: Soul_of_Shu

User avatar
PHIbonacci
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:50 am

What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by PHIbonacci »

^this.

compassion
/kəmˈpaʃ(ə)n/
noun: compassion; plural noun: compassions

: sympathetic consciousness of others' distress together with a desire to alleviate it
SanteriSatama
Posts: 1021
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by SanteriSatama »

Hi PHI, bonacci, and wellcome to the forum!
Love your handle very much! :)

Good question. The very idea-phenomenon of disassociation seems like a sort of defence mechanism against compassion, ie. sharing an emotional field/mood in a fuller spectrum. Deep down analytical idealism is philosophical inquiry into the phenomenon and root cause of disassociative fragmentation and alienation, and in that sense also therapeutic.
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by Lou Gold »

Yeah, great question. My take is that healing occurs when one's own woundedness is transformed to soulful expression. "Love your neighbor as yourself" requires "feel your neighbor as yourself." The challenge is to know the root trauma that causes our own dissociation and thus truly arrive at knowing everyone is suffering. Then the healing moves from charity to reciprocity, from passion to compassion.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
User avatar
DandelionSoul
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:18 am

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by DandelionSoul »

My take might be a touch different: I think the sense of distinction is necessary in order for love to happen at all. Compassion -- feeling-with -- only happens when we have a sense of another soul distinct from our own. Love is not the dissolution of the feeling of distinction, but its sublation: the concurrent recognition of the unity that grounds the distinction and the distinction that dis/closes the unity. They are not two.
User avatar
Lou Gold
Posts: 979
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:18 pm

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by Lou Gold »

DandelionSoul wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:09 pm My take might be a touch different: I think the sense of distinction is necessary in order for love to happen at all. Compassion -- feeling-with -- only happens when we have a sense of another soul distinct from our own. Love is not the dissolution of the feeling of distinction, but its sublation: the concurrent recognition of the unity that grounds the distinction and the distinction that dis/closes the unity. They are not two.
I like your added touch.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
Jim Cross
Posts: 245
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:36 pm

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by Jim Cross »

I thought this topic was silly and avoided it for a while.

But actually I now think I was wrong to think it silly.

Compassion seems to me to be a way of alleviating the dissociation. It is a recognition of underlying unity with other people, other living things, and Nature at large. It is a bridge over the gap that separates us.
SanteriSatama
Posts: 1021
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by SanteriSatama »

DandelionSoul wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:09 pm My take might be a touch different: I think the sense of distinction is necessary in order for love to happen at all. Compassion -- feeling-with -- only happens when we have a sense of another soul distinct from our own. Love is not the dissolution of the feeling of distinction, but its sublation: the concurrent recognition of the unity that grounds the distinction and the distinction that dis/closes the unity. They are not two.
Distinction, difference, unique, all valuable. And your use of word 'sublation' tickles pleasurably.

Disassociation by Markov blanket, another story. The math, as far as I can understand, has no structure for empathy and compassion. In that sense the analytical leg can be read as a diagnosis of alienation, setting Bernardo's idealism in the larger context of continental therapeutic philosophy.
Marco Masi
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:54 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by Marco Masi »

Jim Cross wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:48 pm Compassion seems to me to be a way of alleviating the dissociation. It is a recognition of underlying unity with other people, other living things, and Nature at large. It is a bridge over the gap that separates us.
Indeed. And we know that to be true. But not through an analytic reasoning or the mind, rather through something in our hearts, There is more than a "mind" at large.
User avatar
PHIbonacci
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:50 am

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by PHIbonacci »

SanteriSatama wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:30 pm Hi PHI, bonacci, and wellcome to the forum!
Love your handle very much! :)
Thank you for the warm welcome SanteriSatama. I've contributed with barely a dozen posts in the past but I have been into lurk mode only until I get up to speed with Bernardo's corpus. Sometimes it's a bit overwhelming but I'm enjoying the ride, sure. :D

The reason I asked this is because to me Consciousness and Compassion play a central role in my worldview. I don't conceive one without the other. Unfortunately I cannot give a proper explanation, it's just a [very intense] intuition.

I don't come from the academia so please bear with my lack of proper argumentation. As Bernardo, I have experimented with two high dosages of psychedelics too for introspective purposes. It came quite clear to me that Consciousness and Compassion are inextricably linked.

In other words: the so-called "enlightenment", or, if you prefer to call it, the peak experiences —the quite common and experientialy observable in so many "mystics" for thousands of years— of "melting" or "disappearing" with/into Reality, where there's "no-two"/"one without the second" have to necessarily arouse, once "back" into the corporeal body an immediate discovery of THE OTHER that is, again, the two and a desire to alleviate her distress. Otherwise I don't recognize that as proper "enlightenment". I hate to use the word "enlightenment" for it's soo prone to misunderstandings, but I hope we get the idea as to where that word is pointing.

And it's at this point that I wonder what kind of role would have Compassion (if any, maybe he doesn't contemplate it, but I cannot say for I haven't read all of his works yet) within Bernardo's worldview.

This is being a very interesting thread with some really nice contributions. Thanks guys!
SanteriSatama
Posts: 1021
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2021 4:07 pm

Re: What's the role (if any) and/or How does COMPASSION fit within Bernardo's idealism?

Post by SanteriSatama »

PHIbonacci wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:26 pm I don't come from the academia so please bear with my lack of proper argumentation. As Bernardo, I have experimented with two high dosages of psychedelics too for introspective purposes. It came quite clear to me that Consciousness and Compassion are inextricably linked.
We each give our best babble
trying to express the ineffable.
And thus we become each unique
and isn't that très magnifique!


From what wonder and curiosity does your phibonacci handle come from? The ratio of consecutive fibonacci areas/segments/numbers is most wonderful constant of compassion!
Post Reply