Jung and Deleuze

[JustinG]

I'm not inclined to try and get my head around Anti-Oedipus at this stage, or try to explain it, but the underlying ontology seems similar to Nietzsche's ontology of the Will to Power. Regarding the archetypes etc, I would say that if they are assumed to be fixed, unchanging and universally applicable, then that is an unwarranted universalizing assumption (eg I just read something saying that Australian aboriginal tribes have no chiefs, so is 60,000 years of human civilization without chiefs factored in and appropriately weighted in the archetypal schema?).

As for bothering with Deleuze, of course no-one is obliged to do so, but his work is currently very influential in universities in the humanities and social sciences, with this filtering through to things like posthumanism, queer theory and new materialism. So I think it's worth getting familiar with his work, even if only to critique it.

[AshvinP]

I'm not inclined to try and get my head around Anti-Oedipus at this stage, or try to explain it, but the underlying ontology seems similar to Nietzsche's ontology of the Will to Power. Regarding the archetypes etc, I would say that if they are assumed to be fixed, unchanging and universally applicable, then that is an unwarranted universalizing assumption (eg I just read something saying that Australian aboriginal tribes have no chiefs, so is 60,000 years of human civilization without chiefs factored in and appropriately weighted in the archetypal schema?).

As for bothering with Deleuze, of course no-one is obliged to do so, but his work is currently very influential in universities in the humanities and social sciences, with this filtering through to things like posthumanism, queer theory and new materialism. So I think it's worth getting familiar with his work, even if only to critique it.

Exactly - we don't need to try and get our heads around something that has already been said by Nietzsche, Steiner, Jung, etc. and said much earlier and better. I agree the ontology sounds similar to Nietzsche's WtP and that is also the basis of Adler's psychoanalytic theory. It is a partial image of how processes in Nature unfold in the human psyche - a useful one but still very much incomplete. The archetypes are assumed to be living beings by Steiner and Jung (or rather verified to be in the case of the former), so that is basically the opposite of fixed and unchanging. Yet they are "universally applicable" to the extent they actually exist and cannot be willed into non-existence by human beings who would rather not participate in the Solar evolutionary path.

I am not sure why the fact about no chiefs in Australian tribes would undermine the existence of archetypes - could you specify? I agree, it could be helpful to bother with Deleuze etc. to critique their ideas, and that sounds like a good challenge to set myself for writing an essay sometime soon

[SanteriSatama]

I am not sure why the fact about no chiefs in Australian tribes would undermine the existence of archetypes - could you specify? I agree, it could be helpful to bother with Deleuze etc. to critique their ideas, and that sounds like a good challenge to set myself for writing an essay sometime soon

Hi there Ashvin. I'm Sauron, the archetype of the superiority complex of power hierarchies of class societies. As you called me, I'm now alive and speaking with you. To tell you the truth, just between us, the gig of Supreme Dominator gets boring after a while, as there's no challenge anymore, and I might be inclined to the let go of that and die in peace or transform or whatever, and become just a distant memory instead of living archetype. But if you, on your part, want to keep on breathing more life into me, Sauron, I can't stop your sovereign freedom of choice choosing to be my slave soul.

[SanteriSatama]

I'm sorry. As this personification of the archetypal Sauron, I apologize for all the suffering caused by class society and other creations by me. If any good ever came from those, I hope those can be preserved and made better without the hurtful and toxic structures and desires. With this apology, I invite my dear brother the Pope to follow my example, and to participate in our healing process by self-healing process of himself and his institution, to continue our metamorphic progress in better direction.
https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/a ... eaders-say

[Soul_of_Shu]

I'm sorry. As this personification of the archetypal Sauron, I apologize for all the suffering caused by class society and other creations by me. If any good ever came from those, I hope those can be preserved and made better without the hurtful and toxic structures and desires. With this apology, I invite my dear brother the Pope to follow my example, and to participate in our healing process by self-healing process of himself and his institution, to continue our metamorphic progress in better direction.
https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/a ... eaders-say

I'm sorry too, but that also is not enough since—as you hold true to past form before you once again take a prolonged leave of absence from the forum—I hope you find the sanative millieux that we here are apparently failing to provide ... unless there's a curandero in the house?

[SanteriSatama]

unless there's a curandero in the house?

This guy?

[JustinG]

Hmm interesting, but I'm doubtful that an anarcho-capitalist curandero who rails against the evils of Christian socialism (1:32 of video 2) is the right type of curandero.

[SanteriSatama]

Hmm interesting, but I'm doubtful that an anarcho-capitalist curandero who rails against the evils of Christian socialism (1:32 of video 2) is the right type of curandero.

I noticed that too, but as adviced, thought relationally and recommend that the curandero himself - who does not claim to be perfect - also applies relational thinking to "socialism" instead of reacting to a word only emotionally.

[Soul_of_Shu]

unless there's a curandero in the house?

This guy?

I preferred your oracle girl phase ...

[SanteriSatama]

unless there's a curandero in the house?

This guy?

I preferred your oracle girl phase ...

Different languages, same basic message. Language of the world suggested this as a potentially effective translation from Deleuze to good ole Murican.