Re: The vertigo of eternity
Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:13 pm
Thank you for the clarification. Other than Steiners book, can you recommend something to read as a beginner in the topic?
AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:54 pmHedge90 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:04 pm I'll definitely look that book up, thanks.
Btw in the meantime I was thinking about something. Religions and esoteric traditions other than Buddhism maintain the existence of a self that survives after the death of the body. But at the same time, the original idea of Hell in many traditions - before it started to be painted as a place of physical torment in the Middle Ages - was basically just oblivion; eradication of the soul (correct me if I'm wrong).
Now, I remembered that the final part of my trip was total union with everything, with complete loss of my self. It was infinitely calm, there was nothing "bad" in it, but my "self" died there. "I" did not have the power to come back from there; I was cast back. And as I was cast back into my body and ego, even though what I just experienced was complete calm, I was overcome with terror (though I ascribed that to the trauma my ego just had).
Do you think, that perhaps I may have seen what those traditions referred to as "Hell"? Do you think that maybe the purpose of mysticism is to develop the aspects of the self that will keep the soul intact and not let it just dissolve?
This is pure speculation and I'm not sure I'm making any sense. I'm merely asking what you think.
I will refer you to Cleric's earlier response for details on your question, because I simply do not know those details. In general, I don't think Hell was ever considered an "eradication" of the soul until the modern age. That is when we get the "annihilation" doctrine in the Western church - I could be wrong about that, but I am pretty sure that is correct. Right now, it is probably best for us to think of "Hell" as a psycho-spiritual state which we can fall into by succumbing too much to certain spiritual forces - Luciferic (over-spiritualized mysticism) and Ahrimanic (sensuous materialism). Your experience would be more the Luciferic one, where your "I" seemed to dissolve but did not actually dissolve (at least not the higher "I" who is fundamental). So yes, in that sense you may have experienced some of what has been called "Hell", and one core purpose of spiritual scientific training is to go beyond the threshold with the ego intact. I am sure Cleric can correct or clarify that if necessary. Below is his response:
viewtopic.php?p=8377#p8377Cleric wrote:There's great difference, though, when this loosening is achieved entirely though our own conscious effort. The slow but certain and safe path of gradual spiritual development, through spiritual exercises, doesn't simply eject us out of the body 'without the use of substances'. First and foremost we need to strengthen our thinking, feeling and willing by imbuing them with strong moral impulses. When this is achieved, there's great difference in the way we enter the spirit realm. When this happened to you, you were sent on a moon trip - you lost your "I" because you could no longer recognize anything that depends on your "I" - or at least your "I" as you know it from Earthly life. Yet it was not really gone, it was simply helplessly spread out and contemplating it's impotence to find its bearings. You know this is so, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to say that these events happened to you. The same essential being that you call "I", and which intuitively experiences your Earthly life, was also there in the ego-less state, even though it couldn't recognize its activity in the completely alien surroundings.
When we enter the out of body state through proper development, we're not lost. We interact with spiritual process and beings. From that vantage point, our ordinary ego is always at hand. This is very significant difference. We can enter and leave our ordinary state at will. In fact, it's of primer importance to always have our lower self in sight, so to speak. The reasons for this will take us too far, but let's just say that that's how we can translate the experiences between the higher and the sensory world. We investigate how our ordinary self comes to be, how its weaved of the higher order spiritual process and the threads of Karma. If we don't have our lower self in sight, reality becomes split for us - into the higher completely inexplicable realm, and the lower realm of the sensory and intellectual ego. The bridge can never be found in this way.
...
So what can be done? As said, one variant is simply to try and distract yourself and hope you'll be able to fill your consciousness with enough trivialities of life, such that you simply forget as much as possible the experience. You'll revisit the experience again at the moment of death. This would be a waste, in my opinion. The other variant is to take your life in hands and begin to develop what you have accidentally unleashed. I must tell you that this is more difficult than if you start from baseline consciousness and proceed with proper exercises. Now you'll have to undo many distorted ideas which seem to you as great revelations but are actually the best a unprepared ego could make out of perceptions in a realm, for which it is utterly unfit.