The possibility of "magic" and universal transcendence

[Hedge90]

I've recently finished Decoding Schopenhauer's Metaphysics, alongside which I was reading a number of traditionalist-occultist literature. Two things came to my mind which I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on. Both of these take as their basis the assumptions made in BK's philosophy.

1. Would it be theoretically possible for an alter to reach out and assert his will in and through MAL, which would effectively be what "magic" is about? I don't see a reason why a sufficiently strong impression couldn't influence other alters (through MAL) or MAL itself in a certain direction. Moreover, if we accept the results of the Global Consciousness Project, we even have evidence that our mentation indeed has an effect on the mentation of MAL (as far as we accept that quantum phenomena are, as everything else preceivable, what MAL's thought processes look like from our POW).

2. Theoretically, could an alter (not necessarily a human at our level of cognition, but still, an alter) develop a mental capacity to be able to expand itself to encompass MAL, keeping its meta-cognitive ability, thereby essentially becoming something akin to the God of theistic religions?

[Martin_]

The vague models that Dean Radin draws up in his book Real Magic hints at something similar to MAL being the unifying medium which makes magic (psi/ prayer/ ... ) possible. Regarding consciousness fields, unfortunately the results of the Global Consciousness Project could also be explained by Roger Nelson being a powerful Magician. (See https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/arti ... er-effects , especially the part about DAT ( decision augmentation theory))
So one should be very careful drawing conclusions from "psi" experiments and assume possible physical models (consciousness field) from the results. Psi is Weird. Very Very Weird. It works in mysterious ways.

[AshvinP]

I've recently finished Decoding Schopenhauer's Metaphysics, alongside which I was reading a number of traditionalist-occultist literature. Two things came to my mind which I'd be happy to hear your thoughts on. Both of these take as their basis the assumptions made in BK's philosophy.

1. Would it be theoretically possible for an alter to reach out and assert his will in and through MAL, which would effectively be what "magic" is about? I don't see a reason why a sufficiently strong impression couldn't influence other alters (through MAL) or MAL itself in a certain direction. Moreover, if we accept the results of the Global Consciousness Project, we even have evidence that our mentation indeed has an effect on the mentation of MAL (as far as we accept that quantum phenomena are, as everything else preceivable, what MAL's thought processes look like from our POW).

2. Theoretically, could an alter (not necessarily a human at our level of cognition, but still, an alter) develop a mental capacity to be able to expand itself to encompass MAL, keeping its meta-cognitive ability, thereby essentially becoming something akin to the God of theistic religions?

Hedge,

1. I don't see any reason why not. Clearly our will-thoughts already can influence others "through MAL". And I don't see any reason to assume that our will cannot, in principle, be 'loosened' from our bodily organism. But I doubt this is any trivial faculty to attain and seems like one that requires the utmost Wisdom to exercise carefully.

2. Again I don't see any reason why not - that would be full realization of theosis.

A better question to ask may be, is there any point thinking about these things before we have taken much more basic steps towards our spiritual freedom? I think, in some ways, even focusing on these things at first is an attempt to circumvent the structure of Reality, and thereby will not lead to one's intended goals, and may even lead to very harmful consequences.

[Starbuck]

There is a practice in Crowlian magic in which a 'sigil' or magical symbol is strongly concentrated and empowered with the intention of the practitioner. This is done at the point of sexual orgasm. From Bk's work, we can argue that orgasm is a period of intense reassociation in which we access MAL. By imposing our individual will we access a greater will. Crowley called this Thelema.

[Hedge90]

A better question to ask may be, is there any point thinking about these things before we have taken much more basic steps towards our spiritual freedom? I think, in some ways, even focusing on these things at first is an attempt to circumvent the structure of Reality, and thereby will not lead to one's intended goals, and may even lead to very harmful consequences.

I'm asking these things more from a theoretical point of view, not because I have plans of apotheosis (though who knows, lol). For the first 30 years of my life I never gave much thought to any of these things (magic/psi, transcendence, etc.) because they sounded like phantasmagorical bullshit to me, and now it's a whole new world to explore for me.
Btw, I've recently read Steiner's Philosophy of Freedom (which you recommended earlier). I also purchased How to know higher worlds, but if you have other recommendations I'd be grateful (it's difficult from my level to know legit knowledge from new-ago eso bullshit).

[AshvinP]

A better question to ask may be, is there any point thinking about these things before we have taken much more basic steps towards our spiritual freedom? I think, in some ways, even focusing on these things at first is an attempt to circumvent the structure of Reality, and thereby will not lead to one's intended goals, and may even lead to very harmful consequences.

I'm asking these things more from a theoretical point of view, not because I have plans of apotheosis (though who knows, lol). For the first 30 years of my life I never gave much thought to any of these things (magic/psi, transcendence, etc.) because they sounded like phantasmagorical bullshit to me, and now it's a whole new world to explore for me.
Btw, I've recently read Steiner's Philosophy of Freedom (which you recommended earlier). I also purchased How to know higher worlds, but if you have other recommendations I'd be grateful (it's difficult from my level to know legit knowledge from new-ago eso bullshit).

Great! I would love to hear your thoughts or questions on the PoF or phenomenology of Thinking in general. It is really the most important spiritual foundation to build before moving further. At first I wanted to consume as much Steiner as possible after reading it, but then I realized it's much more helpful to follow a system and start with all of his works strictly on philosophy and science (like Goethean Science). I was reading Riddles of Philosophy recently and that is really helpful. But well done on finishing PoF! It is always good to hear others are finding it and reading it. And likewise it's so disappointing that even the greatest philosophical minds alive today have not read it or contended with it.

[Hedge90]

Well, to be completely honest it was a bit dry/analytical for my taste, but I appreciated the general concepts. Bear in mind I'm not naturally a huge analytical philosophy buff, I lean more towards narrative prose, so the style of someone like Schopenhauer or BK can better convey concepts for me. But it was a worthy read, and I may get back to it later for a more thorough reading.

[AshvinP]

Well, to be completely honest it was a bit dry/analytical for my taste, but I appreciated the general concepts. Bear in mind I'm not naturally a huge analytical philosophy buff, I lean more towards narrative prose, so the style of someone like Schopenhauer or BK can better convey concepts for me. But it was a worthy read, and I may get back to it later for a more thorough reading.

I actually remember having a similar experience when I first started reading it, and now looking back, I am pretty confident that was because of one simple fact - I was expecting something else. If I remember correctly, I was expecting some sort of half-philosophical, half-sociopolitical commentary on "freedom" similar to that of Karl Marx, except going in the opposite direction towards primacy of the human individual free of State coercion. That flawed expectation, combined with the fact that no other modern philosopher investigates the process of Thinking itself in the way Steiner does, will make us feel like it is disappointing and rather boring. Steiner actually wanted the title in English to be The Philosophy of Spiritual Activity, and there is a lot of Wisdom in that choice, even though he does in fact relate that activity to the deepest possible spiritual freedom we can experience.

I am curious what you felt the "general concepts" were? It's quite possible you mistook it for just some exposition on how our normal cognition operates and why "thinking" is important. It's really more like a systematic critique of all modern philosophy by way of a brand new philosophy of spiritual activity (Thinking) which is found in no previous or subsequent thinkers. It must be understood as a phenomenology and not as any form of analytical philosophy. There is a good chance that, if you don't feel the same way about that "brand new" aspect, and you perceived it as "analytical philosophy", then you are not quite following the arguments he was making, and I am more than happy to assist with that.

[Hedge90]

Well the key takeaway for me was that freedom is precipitated on knowing your mind/thinking, i.e. knowing why you are doing the things you are doing.

[AshvinP]

Well the key takeaway for me was that freedom is precipitated on knowing your mind/thinking, i.e. knowing why you are doing the things you are doing.

Right, that is not really the point. I will have to follow up later, but it should be understood as a phenomenology of Thinking which shows how we can begin accessing the realm of the noumenon by way of that spiritual activity, and only by coming to know the noumenal relations we begin on a path to spritual freedom.