Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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Cleric K wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:09 pmI understand that the above will sound completely conspiratorial to many. But please simply consider what is here being talked about. It's not about spreading sensations suitable for tabloids. We're talking about humans taking their life in control. This can only happen by deepening self-knowledge. Not abstract, theoretical psychological hypotheses but actual, practical understanding of our inner being. From there we can become conscious of all the blind desires, urges, addictions, irrational ideas, which rule our lives and toss us around, and also find completely unsuspected higher goals into which human energies can be directed. If this prospect seems ludicrous, dangerous and so on, then this will simply confirm that there's resistance to know the deeper reality of the human being and the Cosmos, and this 'threat' will be fought against. This will be eventually seen right below this post. There will be people who will fight with words what is being said here but if they had the chance they wouldn't hesitate to use also other means to silence such 'dangerous', 'sectarian', 'totalitarian' ideas. Ideas that in reality only seek to expand man's consciousness and lead him to freedom, clear understanding and the possibility for higher meaning of existence. Ironically, any such opposing behavior will simply confirm what was said in the video.
And still this Self-inquiry ultimately reveals only irreducible, uncaused Mind that conceives of none other than Mind being enslaved in some oubliette of Mind-conceived beliefs. What else stands in the way of its freedom, other than such a belief? And Whose belief is it which once dispelled is rendered as this morning's mist dissipating in the sunrise? And yet Mind conceives anew, as it immanently, imperatively must, but it's no longer a belief in the spell of some locked in slave or overlord master segregated apart from Mind. That Mind-movie is over. Listen, here and now, I-amness is a dove singing at dawn ... No wonder that's a symbol of freedom ... Thou art That.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Ben Iscatus
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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'sectarian', 'totalitarian' ideas.
Some say the Chinese collective system is totalitarian, but in terms of evolutionary advantage, it looks like being the next step. The Chinese are on the up, aren't they - soon to be the only world superpower. The West, with its people's huge sense of entitlement prevents effective change (voting out every 5 years those who would restrict their freedom to pollute and gather personal wealth, etc).
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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Ben Iscatus wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:04 am 'sectarian', 'totalitarian' ideas.
Some say the Chinese collective system is totalitarian, but in terms of evolutionary advantage, it looks like being the next step. The Chinese are on the up, aren't they - soon to be the only world superpower. The West, with its people's huge sense of entitlement prevents effective change (voting out every 5 years those who would restrict their freedom to pollute and gather personal wealth, etc).
Eastern slaves and overlord masters vs western slaves and overlord masters neck 'n neck in a race away from freedom, ever deeper into a dungeon of beliefs ... Sorry, that ol' dawg don't hunt no more 'roun these parts.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
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Eugene I
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

Post by Eugene I »

Soul_of_Shu wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:28 am And still this Self-inquiry ultimately reveals only irreducible, uncaused Mind that conceives of none other than Mind being enslaved in some oubliette of Mind-conceived beliefs. What else stands in the way of its freedom, other than such a belief? And Whose belief is it which once dispelled is rendered as this morning's mist dissipating in the sunrise? And yet Mind conceives anew, as it immanently, imperatively must, but it's no longer a belief in the spell of some locked in slave or overlord master segregated apart from Mind. That Mind-movie is over. Listen, here and now, I-amness is a dove singing at dawn ... No wonder that's a symbol of freedom ... Thou art That.
You are spot on, Shu. Yet, the mystery remains: why the Mind, being in a full capacity to make conscious decisions (if it is in fact), decided to fragment itself and enslave itself under a wild variety of Mind-conceived beliefs in the first place? If we do not find the answer to this questions, we will remain ignorant of the purpose of this seemingly-fragmented life and will remain escapists nostalgic about the undifferentiated/integrated or belief-free state (and isn't such nostalgia just another belief system?). The Mind chose Life in Variety, and such mode of Life involves differentiated but interconnected variety of forms, perspectives, beliefs, desires, values, degrees of freedom and directions of development and evolution. But of course it comes with price tag - suffering, confusion, confrontation, isolation, tensions etc. The Mind knew it and still chose Life in Variety. But it is understandable that some perspectives and belief systems may consider this as a wrong choice and choose to reject this variety and strive to escape from it, and these are also legitimate perspectives and value/belief systems allowed to exist as part of the variety.
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kanzas anymore" Dorothy
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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Soul_of_Shu wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:28 am
Cleric K wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:09 pmI understand that the above will sound completely conspiratorial to many. But please simply consider what is here being talked about. It's not about spreading sensations suitable for tabloids. We're talking about humans taking their life in control. This can only happen by deepening self-knowledge. Not abstract, theoretical psychological hypotheses but actual, practical understanding of our inner being. From there we can become conscious of all the blind desires, urges, addictions, irrational ideas, which rule our lives and toss us around, and also find completely unsuspected higher goals into which human energies can be directed. If this prospect seems ludicrous, dangerous and so on, then this will simply confirm that there's resistance to know the deeper reality of the human being and the Cosmos, and this 'threat' will be fought against. This will be eventually seen right below this post. There will be people who will fight with words what is being said here but if they had the chance they wouldn't hesitate to use also other means to silence such 'dangerous', 'sectarian', 'totalitarian' ideas. Ideas that in reality only seek to expand man's consciousness and lead him to freedom, clear understanding and the possibility for higher meaning of existence. Ironically, any such opposing behavior will simply confirm what was said in the video.
And still this Self-inquiry ultimately reveals only irreducible, uncaused Mind that conceives of none other than Mind being enslaved in some oubliette of Mind-conceived beliefs. What else stands in the way of its freedom, other than such a belief? And Whose belief is it which once dispelled is rendered as this morning's mist dissipating in the sunrise? And yet Mind conceives anew, as it immanently, imperatively must, but it's no longer a belief in the spell of some locked in slave or overlord master segregated apart from Mind. That Mind-movie is over. Listen, here and now, I-amness is a dove singing at dawn ... No wonder that's a symbol of freedom ... Thou art That.

Dana, the above oft-expressed sentiment on this forum reads to me as follows:.


Me: "There are certain specific exceptions carved out in the 1st amendment protection of free speech, and those are discerned by investigating Supreme Court decisions spanning centuries".

You: "But my investigation, which consists of reading the 1st amendment, shows there are no limitations to free speech."

Me: "Ok, well I had to go through 6 semesters of law school and I still only understand a fraction of the limitations of free speech in the 1st amendment. But they do actually exist."

You: "Well, since I don't know about all of that, I am not going to let it stand in the way of my free speech."


I think you get the picture. It is a picture of egoism. I know once this word "egoism" is invoked, fittingly enough, egoic defense mechanisms will be triggered and it will be seen as an affront to one's individual character. I think you know that this is not what I am saying at all. This egoic refusal to consider the details of the spiritual which lay beyond the threshold of death is the focus of all Western spirtual traditions and some Persian and Eastern ones too. The idea of overcoming egoic physical perspective to perceive the spiritual realms, thereby removing the speck of dust which blinds one's vision, is embedded within all traditions of the Old and New testaments. The reasoning mind can build confidence in these spiritual notions of "fallen nature" and "orginal sin" precisely because they pervade our experience. Rich, poor, fast, slow, smart, stupid, virtuous, selfish, compassionate, judgmental - people of all natural and nurtured traits succumb to these egoic trappings.

Right here on this forum, we see it all the time. One can rationalize this by saying consciousness before the threshold of death and consciousness after the threshold are two separate matters entirely. That is also the materialist and dualist view which Eugene, Justin, and Adur clearly hold to (although they won't admit it). It is a view which cannot remain consistent with any metaphysical idealist or nondual tradition. But people are still willing to cling to it on a forum which advocates for idealism and nondual tradition because of that egoic force which overpowers all belief and knowledge. Cleric pointed to this at the end of his last post - the underlying meaning of what he wrote would be completely ignored to proclaim, "yeah, but, I am already free and nothing can take that away from me - vaccines, drugs, ideologies, technologies... none of that matters, because I have become immune to it all!" I suspect something similar will also happen with what I have written above.
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
Ben Iscatus
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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So long-valued forum members are egoic dualists and if they deny it, it proves they're egoic dualists. There is only one path to truth and it's yours..
Such barefaced, elitist cheek! Such passive aggressive bullying! Such nonsense!
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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Right. This is a notorious maneuver of all sectarians: if you disagree with us, it is because you are an egoic personality and it is your ego that makes you disagree.
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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It's not that you guys disagree with us... it's that you guys can't specify any logical reason why you disagree, other than the fact that agreeing to it limits your ability to follow whatever spiritual formulation brings you the most short-term pleasure, happiness, and comfort (egoism). If you can make one single logical argument why the pre-death consciousness should be treated as separate kind from post-death consciousness, and why that treatment does not result in metaphysical dualism, then I will give it fair consideration.
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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AshvinP wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 4:53 pm It's not that you guys disagree with us... it's that you guys can't specify any logical reason why you disagree, other than the fact that agreeing to it limits your ability to follow whatever spiritual formulation brings you the most short-term pleasure, happiness, and comfort (egoism). If you can make one single logical argument why the pre-death consciousness should be treated as separate kind from post-death consciousness, and why that treatment does not result in metaphysical dualism, then I will give it fair consideration.
I gave it here and here. There is a reason why the pre-death consciousness exists in a different form/mode from the post-death one, even though both of these modes are fundamentally the same consciousness. The reason is that such existence in a variety of modes is the only way life can unfold into the variety of forms. There is nothing wrong with this variety of consciousness modes of existence, it is not a "fall"/sin to be saved from, or a problem to overcome. But there are two forces/motives in place to keep the process in dynamics: the motive to disintegrate into variety and discontinuity of modes, and the motive to integrate into a singular and continuous mode, and both motives co-exist (in different proportions) to maintain the dynamics of life. There is nothing wrong with aligning yourself with the integrative force (and this something you chose), likewise there is nothing wrong with the opposite alignment, it is all part of life.
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kanzas anymore" Dorothy
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Re: Rudolf Steiner: Vaccines to Kill The Soul?!

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Soul_of_Shu wrote: Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:28 am And still this Self-inquiry ultimately reveals only irreducible, uncaused Mind that conceives of none other than Mind being enslaved in some oubliette of Mind-conceived beliefs. What else stands in the way of its freedom, other than such a belief? And Whose belief is it which once dispelled is rendered as this morning's mist dissipating in the sunrise? And yet Mind conceives anew, as it immanently, imperatively must, but it's no longer a belief in the spell of some locked in slave or overlord master segregated apart from Mind. That Mind-movie is over. Listen, here and now, I-amness is a dove singing at dawn ... No wonder that's a symbol of freedom ... Thou art That.
Here is the point when we must distinguish the general truth from the concrete truths. (PS: I now see that Ashvin already addressed this with his amendment metaphor). The Realization is a general truth. If we take this truth with our intellect and begin to apply it all over the World Content we inevitably arrive at misleading ideas. One of the misleading ideas is that our human consciousness is already of the exact same general form as the Divine Mind. This is what I tried to illustrate with the picture with the sphere and the eye at the periphery. When we say "Mind being enslaved in some oubliette of Mind-conceived beliefs" we unlawfully extend something which is purely human into the higher worlds. We practically anthropomorphize the Divine Mind. This makes it look as if the Higher Mind summons imaginary pictures and at some point confuses them for reality and becomes trapped by them. As a matter of fact, man is the only being that possesses what we call fantasy. There are so many things that can be said about this. In Imaginative consciousness, which is the normal state for the beings in the rank of Angels, there's no 'mind' that has thoughts, fantasies, beliefs about 'reality'. Consciousness is the reality. In other types of evolution it could have been similar for us too. We would evolve very gradually by fusing the correct ideas with the World Content. But in our particular scenario the imaginative side has been allowed to inflate and decouple from the given perceptual content, allowing for the possibility of error. This inflated soul space gives us the feeling of having personal mind, personal fantasies. Fantasy is our ability to hold mental pictures which have nothing to do with the grand order of things. The Angels don't have such personal fantasies. The contents of their consciousness is the objective Cosmic Imaginative. If we are to relate this in some way to our human state we can say that correct or good conscious content for the Angel is like a flourishing growth process, an actual symphony, expanding and reverberating in Cosmic space. It's not a free floating mental model of reality, it is the Imaginative revelation of reality itself. Conversely, erroneous or evil content is destructive process where reality decays and falls apart. This is in very broad lines, of course. Obviously even within Angelic consciousness we have rhythms of these processes, yet there's overall trend towards harmony and integration.

If we grasp this, we already understand how misleading it is to speak of the Higher Mind holding beliefs that it falls for. The most misleading part is that these beliefs are within the sphere of our consciousness (again the blue sphere). In our human experience there are indeed such beliefs which erroneously lock ourselves in certain loops of consciousness. There are plenty of examples, for instance all kinds of irrational fears which completely rule our conscious conduct. In these cases it is really possible to overcome the fearful belief and it is like we've walked out of an oubliette, as you say. In fact, a large portion of the ideas the keep us locked within the materialistic sensory spectrum are precisely of this character. They are interlocked constellations of ideas, which are further supported with the desires that are dependent on these ideas. This first half of PoF leads the reader precisely outside these kinds of oubliettes. But we go too far if we imagine, for example, that our body is also such kind of belief, that the Mind at some point imagined a body and became so engrossed in it that it forgot how it got there. Such views are very significant obstacles for true knowledge. We simply need to pay attention to what we are doing with our thinking. We should be perfectly clear that when we imagine that the body and everything else are just beliefs of the Higher Mind, we are simply extrapolating our anthropomorphic experience. We implicitly assume the position of the blue sphere. We assume that we already are the Divine Mind and we simply need to deidentify with the illusionary beliefs.

It is true that with the Realization we come to know that we share the same essence with the One - this is the general truth. But in order to know how to relate from our human perspective towards the One, we need other concrete truths. In order to cut to the core I'll say directly - we can never find our relation to the Higher Self unless we discover the true nature of prayer. This immediately rises questions like "Prayer? To whom? I am That. This will be like praying to myself. It makes no sense!" It will make sense when we begin to approach the reality of what lies beyond our current conscious perspective. It makes no sense only if we imagine that we are the eye at the periphery and all reality consists only of beliefs in front of us. To get a proper feel of the higher worlds we need to come to the point of realizing that there's a very specific kind of powerlessness in us. This realization should be reached fully lucidly and clearly, it is a kind of impossibility, such as adding zeros and expecting to get one. If we don't arrive at this lucid realization, we'll still feel it subconsciously, just like we feel that no matter what we do we can't undo the belief of a physical body, but we believe that the power is already in us and we just need some more time (usually after death) to apply it. This is the same archetypal hard problem as everything else. Unfortunately it is even more elusive than the hard problem of consciousness. People today can't see how they create for themselves the latter, what's left for the much finer hard problem of human and higher consciousness.

When we arrive at this finer realization we already know that we can never build the higher consciousness out of the contents (or with deidentifying with the contents) of ordinary consciousness. We need to find the soul disposition which is polar to that which we use in order to deal with the contents of ordinary consciousness (and eventual deideintifying with them). We can only hint at this polar soul disposition when we fill ourselves with humility, devotion, mood of prayer. The Hermetic principle holds "As above, so below; as below, so above." The thing is that, mainly because of our materialistic age, we don't really know what 'above' means. As long as we stand as Realized Eye at the periphery of the Mind, everything is below, no matter if we speak of conscious contents or beliefs that we have locked into. To understand the above we need to understand (the lucid realization) that there's something that can never be discovered as contents of consciousness and manipulation of beliefs. This something can only come from above. And we can only find that something through the mentioned polar soul disposition. In other age than ours, it would be very strange that we even need to explain these things. Just as we need both poles in electricity to do anything useful, so we need the two soul dispositions in order to stand up on our both legs as true human beings within reality.

I'm not particular fan of Alex Gray (for reasons that will take us too far to elaborate) but I'm nevertheless happy for the kind of art he works on. It already shows a positive tendency which will hopefully spiritualize art once again. True art has always been the natural physical expression of the world of soul and spirit. Again we owe it to the centuries leading to materialism that art has become purely means for amusement of the senses.
In our age art must become even more - it must become also a tool for education, for the expression of higher truths.

Image
(There's description of the painting here)

Although the painting depicts things in somewhat different sense that what I've drawn, it's still indicative that the Guardian Angel stands behind the painter's head and sees through the human consciousness. We can never find the the Angel's consciousness within our mind sphere, no matter how many false beliefs we dismantle. Even when we dismantle all conscious contents and enter Adur's nothingness or Ramana's pure consciousness, the Angle's consciousness will still be behind our back. We can only experience the Angel's perspective if we let it flow in us from above. This can only be achieved through the polar soul disposition. We either open up in humility and prayer to the Angel and follow how it stirs our astral body in Imaginative consciousness, or we do that on even deeper level and we live together with the Angel's Cosmic Thoughts as they pass through us in Inspirative consciousness, or we surrender our Earthly humanity to the greatest extent and merge with the "I" perspective of the Angel in Intuitive consciousness.
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