Dune & the Deeper Meaning of Sci Fi

[Soul_of_Shu]

This could go in the Art-forms section, but perhaps warrants some discussion here, on the power of story-making ...

[AshvinP]

This could go in the Art-forms section, but perhaps warrants some discussion here, on the power of story-making ...

I saw this movie (without ever reading the books), and without giving anything away, it fits the esoteric, archetypal Christ involutionary-evolutionary journey to a "T". It is definitely worth the 2.5 hrs (3 with previews) to watch in IMAX theater.

It is true, all imaginative stories, especially in sci-fi/fantasy/horror, are variations of this same [true] story and different aspects of it from different spatiotemporal angles. But this rendition is like a scene-for-scene retelling, and encompsses many of the things we are writing about here in terms of 'higher cognition'. It is really fascinating.

[Soul_of_Shu]

I saw this movie (without ever reading the books), and without giving anything away, it fits the esoteric, archetypal Christ involutionary-evolutionary journey to a "T". It is definitely worth the 2.5 hrs (3 with previews) to watch in IMAX theater.

It is true, all imaginative stories, especially in sci-fi/fantasy/horror, are variations of this same [true] story and different aspects of it from different spatiotemporal angles. But this rendition is like a scene-for-scene retelling, and encompsses many of the things we are writing about here in terms of 'higher cognition'. It is really fascinating.

I'm looking forward to viewing it. I don't recall having read the book, at the height of its popularity being more obsessed with spy novels like The Spy Who came in from the Cold, and other literature depicting more the anti-hero types—and from that obsession almost immediately transgressing further into the anti-hero, sexus-plexus-nexus world according to Henry Miller, in the The Rosy Crucifixion trilogy. When the original Lynch film came out I was living isolated from such cultural phenomena on a small island where I could barely pull in a signal from CBC radio, while access to films was a daydream. So knowing nothing of the story, I'm wondering if given the hero's name being Paul, if there are any parallels to that biblical 'anti-hero' figure, who set out into the dunes of the desert on the road to and from Damascus.

Also speaking of anti-hero types, as it happens, I have read another book mentioned in the above video titled Snow Crash, a wonderful hoot of a novel telling a surrealistic juxtaposition twixt ancient><futuristic, social-satire tale through a character named Hiro Protagonist ... and truly I could not stop laughing.

[AshvinP]

I saw this movie (without ever reading the books), and without giving anything away, it fits the esoteric, archetypal Christ involutionary-evolutionary journey to a "T". It is definitely worth the 2.5 hrs (3 with previews) to watch in IMAX theater.

It is true, all imaginative stories, especially in sci-fi/fantasy/horror, are variations of this same [true] story and different aspects of it from different spatiotemporal angles. But this rendition is like a scene-for-scene retelling, and encompsses many of the things we are writing about here in terms of 'higher cognition'. It is really fascinating.

I'm looking forward to viewing it. I don't recall having read the book, at the height of its popularity being more obsessed with spy novels like The Spy Who came in from the Cold, and other literature depicting more the anti-hero types—and from that obsession almost immediately transgressing further into the anti-hero, sexus-plexus-nexus world according to Henry Miller, in the The Rosy Crucifixion trilogy. When the original Lynch film came out I was living isolated from such cultural phenomena on a small island where I could barely pull in a signal from CBC radio, while access to films was a daydream. So knowing nothing of the story, I'm wondering if given the hero's name being Paul, if there are any parallels to that biblical 'anti-hero' figure, who set out into the dunes of the desert on the road to and from Damascus.

Also speaking of anti-hero types, as it happens, I have read another book mentioned in the above video titled Snow Crash, a wonderful hoot of a novel telling a surrealistic juxtaposition twixt ancient><futuristic, social-satire tale through a character named Hiro Protagonist ... and truly I could not stop laughing.

I am not really familiar with any of those things you mention, but it does seem apt to say St. Paul is the archetypal personality for every individual today. I wouldn't call him an anti-hero, because that implies his revelation was somehow at odds with that of Christ, and it isn't. The main character in the movie is very much a direct parallel to Christ, who goes through his temptation with Satan in the desert. But also, as individuals, we are truly microcosms of the macrocosm, so there is aspect of every archetypal spiritual being within us.

[Brad Walker]

Unfortunately, I don't currently have free time to watch this. Here's a recent question to ponder: what's the minimal set of sci-fi works in any medium that covers or accurately describes all relevant achievable technological inventions?

[idlecuriosity]

Speaking of world practical future tech, I for one would find it really funny if the feats exuded by the 'tic tac' ufos the US government are puzzled by actually come from one of you beans playing around via meditation with our weapon systems for fun. That's one potential extrapolation; that the technology isn't actually technology but an exhibition of human spiritual acuity. Goodness, I'd want to learn it.

[Soul_of_Shu]

"Space, the final frontier" takes on new meaning when there is no 'out there' out there.

[Lou Gold]

I saw it and loved it. Myth presenting at it's best.

A big part is it's innovative audio-visual language, as this review explores in terms of the Hans Zimmer musical score.

The film moves only part way through the book. Supposedly, there will be a Part Two.

[Lou Gold]

This could go in the Art-forms section, but perhaps warrants some discussion here, on the power of story-making ...

I saw this movie (without ever reading the books), and without giving anything away, it fits the esoteric, archetypal Christ involutionary-evolutionary journey to a "T". It is definitely worth the 2.5 hrs (3 with previews) to watch in IMAX theater.

It is true, all imaginative stories, especially in sci-fi/fantasy/horror, are variations of this same [true] story and different aspects of it from different spatiotemporal angles. But this rendition is like a scene-for-scene retelling, and encompsses many of the things we are writing about here in terms of 'higher cognition'. It is really fascinating.

An interesting quote about the intentions of the author:

[Frank] Herbert said many times that Dune’s central theme is the “dangers of the superhero.” In a piece of that name, republished in Tim O’Reilly’s The Maker of Dune, Herbert claims that “the original spark” of the novel was his conviction that “superheroes are disastrous for mankind,” and a desire to dramatize how the mythmaking impulse that crowns a hero inevitably conjures a toxic, totalitarian social system of “demagogues, fanatics, con-game artists . . . [and] innocent and not so innocent bystanders.”

Here's an interesting uncommon review from the Left: The Socialist Dune I guess we will have to read the book or wait for Part 2 to evaluate it more completely. Meanwhile, I certainly enjoyed the audio-visual adventure of the first part.

[AshvinP]

This could go in the Art-forms section, but perhaps warrants some discussion here, on the power of story-making ...

I saw this movie (without ever reading the books), and without giving anything away, it fits the esoteric, archetypal Christ involutionary-evolutionary journey to a "T". It is definitely worth the 2.5 hrs (3 with previews) to watch in IMAX theater.

It is true, all imaginative stories, especially in sci-fi/fantasy/horror, are variations of this same [true] story and different aspects of it from different spatiotemporal angles. But this rendition is like a scene-for-scene retelling, and encompsses many of the things we are writing about here in terms of 'higher cognition'. It is really fascinating.

An interesting quote about the intentions of the author:

[Frank] Herbert said many times that Dune’s central theme is the “dangers of the superhero.” In a piece of that name, republished in Tim O’Reilly’s The Maker of Dune, Herbert claims that “the original spark” of the novel was his conviction that “superheroes are disastrous for mankind,” and a desire to dramatize how the mythmaking impulse that crowns a hero inevitably conjures a toxic, totalitarian social system of “demagogues, fanatics, con-game artists . . . [and] innocent and not so innocent bystanders.”

Here's an interesting uncommon review from the Left: The Socialist Dune I guess we will have to read the book or wait for Part 2 to evaluate it more completely. Meanwhile, I certainly enjoyed the audio-visual adventure of the first part.

That's a good point by Herbert, which then prompts the question... why? Why does the thoughtful and/or creative personality feel so uncomfortable and cheated with these caricatures of "superheroes" that are all too common in modern movies? I think it's because we can sense the manner in which a deep archetypal spiritual reality of our deep (mostly subconscious) experience is abstracted and mineralized into pure earthly, rigid concepts. That is the meaning of a "confidence [con] artist" - a person who subtitutes the Reality for a clever deception because his target naturally has the utmost confidence in the former. Ironically, that is exactly what the article you linked is doing... it is conning us.

Dune’s dour, self-lacerating tone is what allows the novel to “move within” itself and its own heroic pretensions. Stilted dialogue, caustic asides, and other sour notes dampen ostensibly epic and exciting plot elements, recasting Paul’s “hero’s journey” as a descent into cynical self-destruction, as when Paul turns to his companion Stilgar, in a moment of triumph, to find his friend has “become a worshipper,” a mere “creature” ruined by Paul’s own ambition. By poisoning its feast of fascist aesthetics, the novel strives to put us off the taste for good.

It is really sad to see how the author's own cynicism is projected onto a great work of art, when there is nothing in a fair viewing of the movie which lends credence to anything written above. There is definitely the archetypal descent into the underworld, by the Charioteer of the soul (I am sure you will appreciate that imagery from the Gita), and encounter with the "Guardian of the Threshold" before crossing over. Yet that is the exact opposite of "cynical self-destruction" - it is Self-knowledge which empowers and enlivens the soul, again of the sort Krishna bestows upon Arjuna in the beautiful epic imagery of the Gita. It is tragic that readers of this article will never know the truth depths of the cinematic experience because they are conned by the materialist socialist perspective.

I did not read the books yet and really have no knowledge of Herbert's philosophy (although I am very curious), but that of Dennis Villueneve (the director of Dune) is pretty clear from his other various movies. The archetypal themes of his movies do not cynically reject the Hero's journey and the Christian themes of sacrifice and redemption, but enrich them with Imagination. I really liked Arrival the most, followed by Prisoners and then Dune and Blade Runner 2049. People miss out on so much deep meaning in these movies by casting their rich ideas down into materialist abstractions. Every great aesthetic experience becomes a tool for scoring cheap political points instead of an amazingly instructive lesson on the essential Self and the story of our most authentic journey through life.