Survival

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.

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Martin_
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Re: Survival

Post by Martin_ »

Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.
"I don't understand." /Unknown
Jim Cross
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Re: Survival

Post by Jim Cross »

Martin_ wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.
I think a real pattern is a fact.
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Martin_
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Re: Survival

Post by Martin_ »

Jim Cross wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:18 pm
Martin_ wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.
I think a real pattern is a fact.
Assigning the attribute "real" to a pattern is something which comes a lot later in the scientific process. It is not how it begins.
"I don't understand." /Unknown
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Martin_
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Re: Survival

Post by Martin_ »

there are many BK's.

There it Formal BK
and there is Visionary BK

The above paper is an example of Formal BK, where he fights against the current philosophical and scientific mindset using its own tools and methods.
The Visionaly BK is what we see a lot in interviews. There he lets his Imaginative Thinking loose, resulting in very different conversations, and exploration of different themes.

A lot of the criticism i see agaist BK is due to the conflation of these 2 BK's in my opinion.
"I don't understand." /Unknown
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Survival

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

Martin_ wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.
Indeed, science, based on subjective experience, once studied a pattern of the sun, along with the firmament at large, 'rising' and 'setting' beyond the horizon, and came up with a theory of geocentrism, plausible enough at the time. Until science deduced through reason that the earth was spinning on its axis, and the sun was orbiting around the centre of the galaxy, with the earth following, spiralling, along, not really our experience at all, and then came up with another theory to account for the pattern. Now, what of that pattern countlessly reported over all of recorded history of encounters with the 'dead'? ;)
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Jim Cross
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:36 pm

Re: Survival

Post by Jim Cross »

Soul_of_Shu wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:35 pm
Martin_ wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.
Indeed, science, based on subjective experience, once studied a pattern of the sun, along with the firmament at large, 'rising' and 'setting' beyond the horizon, and came up with a theory of geocentrism, plausible enough at the time. Until science deduced through reason that the earth was spinning on its axis, and the sun was orbiting around the centre of the galaxy, not really our experience at all, and then came up with another theory to account for the pattern. Now, what of that pattern countlessly reported over all of recorded history of encounters with the 'dead'? ;)
If you are saying ghosts are like geocentrism, I can see your point. We have a better theory now.
Mysteriously snuffed out candles, weird sensations and shivers down the spine may not be due to the presence of ghosts in haunted houses but to very low frequency sound that is inaudible to humans. British scientists have shown in a controlled experiment that the extreme bass sound known as infrasound produces a range of bizarre effects in people including anxiety, extreme sorrow and chills — supporting popular suggestions of a link between infrasound and strange sensations.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3077192
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Martin_
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Re: Survival

Post by Martin_ »

Jim Cross wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:39 pm
Soul_of_Shu wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:35 pm
Martin_ wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:13 pm Science does not begin with facts. Science begins with recognition of patterns.
Indeed, science, based on subjective experience, once studied a pattern of the sun, along with the firmament at large, 'rising' and 'setting' beyond the horizon, and came up with a theory of geocentrism, plausible enough at the time. Until science deduced through reason that the earth was spinning on its axis, and the sun was orbiting around the centre of the galaxy, not really our experience at all, and then came up with another theory to account for the pattern. Now, what of that pattern countlessly reported over all of recorded history of encounters with the 'dead'? ;)
If you are saying ghosts are like geocentrism, I can see your point. We have a better theory now.
Mysteriously snuffed out candles, weird sensations and shivers down the spine may not be due to the presence of ghosts in haunted houses but to very low frequency sound that is inaudible to humans. British scientists have shown in a controlled experiment that the extreme bass sound known as infrasound produces a range of bizarre effects in people including anxiety, extreme sorrow and chills — supporting popular suggestions of a link between infrasound and strange sensations.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna3077192
Please read Mishlove's essay and get back to me whether you think ALL the cases reported there qualify as "strange sensations". If not, your explanation has no value in this context.
"I don't understand." /Unknown
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Survival

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

Jim Cross wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:39 pmIf you are saying ghosts are like geocentrism, I can see your point. We have a better theory now.
'Better' seems highly subjective in this case.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Jim Cross
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:36 pm

Re: Survival

Post by Jim Cross »

There is a list of unclaimed prizes for evidence of the paranormal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... paranormal

The Scientific American prize for mediumship never got claimed. Apparently none of the others have either.

I guess it is insufficient belief on the part of the prize offerors.
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Martin_
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Re: Survival

Post by Martin_ »

Jim Cross wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:52 pm There is a list of unclaimed prizes for evidence of the paranormal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p ... paranormal

The Scientific American prize for mediumship never got claimed. Apparently none of the others have either.

I guess it is insufficient belief on the part of the prize offerors.
That's one theory, yes.
"I don't understand." /Unknown
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