Idealist vision for 2050?

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David_Sundaram
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by David_Sundaram »

Riffin; on ... there's purpose to it all ... we chose this ... we're all okay and everything is as it should be (within reason)... helps me look for every lesson and find beauty in things so many overlook. I just want to say thank you. Without each of you, my path would be so much more difficult. Thank you for walking me home. [from my last post]"

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/litt ... ket-newtab

and, dovetailing with exupry's missive, here's Oriah Mountain Dreamer's poetic invitation':

The Invitation
by Oriah Mountain Dreamer

It doesn't interest me what you do for a living.
I want to know what you ache for, and if you dare to dream of meeting your heart's longing.

It doesn't interest me how old you are.
I want to know if you will risk looking like a fool for love, for your dream, for the adventure of being alive.

It doesn't interest me what planets are squaring your moon.
I want to know if you have touched the center of your own sorrow, if you have been opened by life's betrayals or have become shriveled and closed from fear of further pain!
I want to know if you can sit with pain, mine or your own, without moving to hide it or fade it, or fix it.

I want to know if you can be with joy, mine or your own, if you can dance with wildness and let the ecstasy fill you to the tips of your fingers and toes without cautioning us to be careful, to be realistic, to remember the limitations of being human.

It doesn't interest me if the story you are telling me is true.
I want to know if you can disappoint another to be true to yourself; if you can bear the accusation of betrayal and not betray your own soul; if you can be faithless and therefore trustworthy.

I want to know if you can see beauty even when it's not pretty, every day, and if you can source your own life from its presence.

I want to know if you can live with failure, yours and mine, and still stand on the edge of the lake and shout to the silver of the full moon, "Yes!"

It doesn't interest me to know where you live or how much money you have.
I want to know if you can get up, after the night of grief and despair, weary and bruised to the bone, and do what needs to be done to feed the children.

It doesn't interest me who you know or how you came to be here.
I want to know if you will stand in the center of the fire with me and not shrink back.

It doesn't interest me where or what or with whom you have studied.
I want to know what sustains you, from the inside, when all else falls away.

I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you truly like the company you keep in the empty moments.
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Lou Gold
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Lou Gold »

I want to know if you can be alone with yourself and if you truly like the company you keep in the empty moments.
It's a cool poem that I've known and loved.

I'm moved to add an additional line in the spirit of Ibn' Arabi:

Can you be alone with the one who alone knows you?
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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David_Sundaram
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by David_Sundaram »

David_Sundaram wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:05 pm
Martin_ wrote: Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:40 am
Lou Gold wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:36 pm
What would I teach the children? I would teach them to hold hands and pay attention. That's my vision.
I can't object to either of these; they are both really good. Only observe that we're not really moving towards more hand-holding at the moment :(
I 'see' (dream?) what happened, the 'mass event' that's is consequently now happening, and project what will consequently next happen 'on earth' as described and future-projected at the following links:

https://bigthink.com/scotty-hendricks/w ... al-problem

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2 ... ZBLahl1zKA
Looking for a 'relevant' place to share this video of Guy Lane taking about 'Balancing Civilization with Nature' and "the Anthropocene Crisis', I ended up here.

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Lou Gold
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Lou Gold »

David,

Was kinda fun listening to some old guys struggle with it. ;) :P :roll:

Not to disagree but, as a non-anthropocentric and more bio-centric thought experiment, it's interesting to contemplate the possibility that humans are being driven off planet Earth in service of spreading the plant-based intelligence of turning light into life across the universe, analogous to plants depending on animals (including humans) to spread their seeds.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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David_Sundaram
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by David_Sundaram »

Lou Gold wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:39 amWas kinda fun listening to some old guys struggle with it. ;) :P :roll:

Not to disagree but, as a non-anthropocentric and more bio-centric thought experiment, it's interesting to contemplate the possibility that humans are being driven off planet Earth in service of spreading the plant-based intelligence of turning light into life across the universe, analogous to plants depending on animals (including humans) to spread their seeds.
Like those who believe in and looks forward to 'contact' with kazillion-mile travelling (UFO) 'aliens' in physical 'reality, your 'vision' is too matter-bio-centric to 'dovetail; with my vision/belief-system/theory as to what the 'future' holds 'in store' for 'us', Lou. Once more, from my treatise:

"Think about all that this actually means:  Among other things, it means that even if you or others who you are presently mentally and emotionally Love‑and-Joy-relationally engaged with were to physically ‘die’ the very next instant, or even if you or they were to go on to ‘live’ and possibly ‘die’ dreadful (in terms of being physiosocially difficult, painful and/or deprived) ‘lives’ and ‘deaths’, then even if not in some future lifetime on this planet (let’s say, because it becomes uninhabitable), your souls could and would either:

(a) continue to your relational association by reincarnating together (in  different ‘forms’☺ of course) in the context of another planet’s Life‑matrix if you and they so chose – that is, assuming you and they didn’t complete your incarnational ‘school’ curriculum and ‘graduate’ herefrom by  way of fully real izing your Cosmic ‘I’dentity here this time around; or

(b) continue your ‘association’ in completely psychospiritual realms – that is, assuming you and they did ‘graduate’ and so had no further purpose to fulfill by incarnating again; or

(c) assuming you ‘graduate’ and they don’t, (so they continue to reincarnate) or vice versa, because there really aren’t any ‘rigid’ boundaries between physical and non-physical realms of Life (these are actually existentially interleaved), just engage across the apparent gap between these. In the latter case, disincarnate souls inhabiting purely psychospiritual realms (this  also pertains to those that are presently just ‘between’ incarnations) may interact and communicate with incarnated folks in undetected ways (i.e. not consciously registered by locally focused brains) in their ‘waking’ lives, and incarnated souls may ‘trip out’☺ and engage with disincarnate souls they have an affiliational affinity with in their ‘dreams’, albeit such realm-spanning interactions and communications may not be recognized for what they are because these are generally physical-brain translated into the ‘language’ of images and symbols and, in any case, lack of biosensory impression usually results in their quickly fading from brain-based memory upon one’s bodily ‘waking up’.

Those who ‘see’ what’s happening in this light will know that they as well as others don’t really ‘need’ to grasp for or hold onto anyone or anything in order to become and continue to experience being completely happy (that is, fully Love and Joy related) souls, and that there’s no really compelling ‘reason’ for them to ‘lament’ the worldly destruction, loss or inaccessibility of anyone or anything either, not to the point where they are completely unhappy at least. They will live knowing that they ever-continue to be munificently ‘gifted’ by, and, though there may of course be momentary lapses in this regard as a result of their experiencing physical and/or emotional pain, generally be very appreciative of and feel enormous gratitude for being included in, Life’s ever-ongoing Love and Joy Flow Process, and so whole-mind-n-heart-edly engage in generous sharing and unabashed celebration thereof no matter what!"

💖
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Lou Gold
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Lou Gold »

David_Sundaram wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:22 pm
Those who ‘see’ what’s happening in this light will know that they as well as others don’t really ‘need’ to grasp for or hold onto anyone or anything in order to become and continue to experience being completely happy (that is, fully Love and Joy related) souls, and that there’s no really compelling ‘reason’ for them to ‘lament’ the worldly destruction, loss or inaccessibility of anyone or anything either, not to the point where they are completely unhappy at least. They will live knowing that they ever-continue to be munificently ‘gifted’ by, and, though there may of course be momentary lapses in this regard as a result of their experiencing physical and/or emotional pain, generally be very appreciative of and feel enormous gratitude for being included in, Life’s ever-ongoing Love and Joy Flow Process, and so whole-mind-n-heart-edly engage in generous sharing and unabashed celebration thereof no matter what!"


This is beginning to sound like Ramana. :roll:
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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David_Sundaram
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by David_Sundaram »

Lou Gold wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:40 pm
David_Sundaram wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:22 pm ... generally be very appreciative of and feel enormous gratitude for being included in, Life’s ever-ongoing Love and Joy Flow Process, and so whole-mind-n-heart-edly engage in generous sharing and unabashed celebration thereof no matter what!"


This is beginning to sound like Ramana. :roll:


There is some overlap between his and my 'ways' - my relational engagement activity/activism doesn't 'stop' 😮 there, however.

Here is link to an article about the guy who interviewed Guy Lane (in the video link above), Stuart's work-play which I think you might find inspirational:

https://www.pressenza.com/2020/12/relig ... te-change/
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Lou Gold
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Lou Gold »

David_Sundaram wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 2:15 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 7:40 pm
David_Sundaram wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:22 pm ... generally be very appreciative of and feel enormous gratitude for being included in, Life’s ever-ongoing Love and Joy Flow Process, and so whole-mind-n-heart-edly engage in generous sharing and unabashed celebration thereof no matter what!"


This is beginning to sound like Ramana. :roll:


There is some overlap between his and my 'ways' - my relational engagement activity/activism doesn't 'stop' 😮 there, however.

Here is link to an article about the guy who interviewed Guy Lane (in the video link above), Stuart's work-play which I think you might find inspirational:

https://www.pressenza.com/2020/12/relig ... te-change/


VIVA! Stuart Scott VIVA!

However, this does not discredit a meditator, it says that Stuart might possibly have reduced his stress and resulting cancer with meditation. However, I'm not judging his process but saying instead that each person finds a balance according to his unique nature even if it does not include Love and Joy, which Stuart would hardly claim for his cancer. And, as his life shows, he rejects no tradition's capacity for action, including the non-dual:

For the better part of two decades, Stuart Scott has interfaced with Buddhist monks, Catholic priests, bishops, cardinals, and Popes, Hindu Swamis, Sikh Granthi, Christian ministers and scientists to support efforts to save the world from humanity’s carelessness and ignorance, which, far and away, is the most potent adversary of the factual evidence as discovered by science.

Actually-factually, action and stillness exist as options in all traditions. Thich Nhat Hanh was a great activist, among other things, convincing MLK to oppose the war in Vietnam. As Jesus says in the Gospel of Thomas, "Tell them that I am movement and rest."
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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David_Sundaram
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by David_Sundaram »

Lou Gold wrote: Sun Feb 28, 2021 4:22 pmActually-factually, action and stillness exist as options in all traditions. Thich Nhat Hanh was a great activist, among other things, convincing MLK to oppose the war in Vietnam. As Jesus says in the Gospel of Thomas, "Tell them that I am movement and rest."
Yes. As the Gita says: "No man can attain freedom from activity by refraining from action; nor can he reach perfection by merely refusing to act."

The Q which implicit 'faces' every living person, whether said person honestly 'faces' it or not, is whether (or not) s/he is doing the 'best' s/he can to 'serve' (i.e. augment and optimize) the Flow of the experience and expression of the Love-and-Joy of Life.

In this regard, whether one is 'judging' (i.e. 'assessing') one's own response-abilities or those of others, I would suggest "Unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more" (Luke 12) applies.

Your and my 'assessments' differ (quite extensively, IMO) in the above regard. IMO, you are far too 'indulgent' (i.e uncritically, or 'unconditionally' 'accepting') of personal emotional preferences/proclivities (including your own, again, IMO), and so 'fall short', in terms of my judgments/assessments in the above regard.

Not that (any) one can be 'sure' of any judgments/assessments in any regard, hence the desirability of always being 'open' to their re-vision, but that one has to proceed (or not!) on the basis of whatever one thinks is most likely to be 'best' in the above regard - otherwise, one will be just as Hamstrung :D as Hamlet was!

I don't disagree with you in relation to Thich himself,mind you, in most regards at least. But I think 'Advaita' and 'Buddhism' as philosophical postionalities/attitudinalities are unduly 'supportive' of response-ability-shirking and so may be very soul-growth-and-expression miss-leading in regards the issue I am attempting to high-light here.

IMO, Stuart's résumé shows Ramana's' to be what it, in my judgement/assessment, it is by way of contrast. It was to high-light that contrast that I shared it with you, Lou; albeit, I am not at all surprise to see it was to no effect, as you just continue to saw your same old personally preferred song.

Here's an 'image' which hopefully also helps to get my (above) 'point' across:
Image
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David_Sundaram
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

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Notice any similarities between the preceding statue-image and this photo-image?

Image

and the commentary:

Image
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