Idealist vision for 2050?

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Lou Gold
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Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Lou Gold »

Here's a great exchange between Russell Brand and Yuval Harari about conspiratorial messaging and the need for a clear practical vision. So what is the Idealist vision for the year 2050? Please don't jump to an answer without watching the video clip.
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

I feel no greater affinity for a vision than that expressed in Jean Gebser's Ever-present Origin ~ although I'm not sure that 30 years is a sufficient time-frame to see it come to fruition, even as according to Gebser one can't rule out some a-temporal hyper-acceleration of the process. However, given that it's expressed in over 600 pages, it can't really be encapsulated easily. Still, Jeremy Johnson offers a nice nutshell version of the vision in getting it down to just under 140 pages in his book Seeing Through the World.

Some may also want to check out this interview with Jeremy Johnson wherein he discusses Gebser's vision, how his model differs from Wilber's, the phenomenology of time, technology, postmodernism, Dogen Zenji, and the future of humanity ...

Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
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Lou Gold
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Lou Gold »

Thanks Shu for the video. I vibe with it. It's almost tempting me toward reading some Gebser but I believe that I intuitively grok it. En route to the Integral, the Mental is deconstructing. This will intensify the fight between the mental models of Materialism vs Idealism. It will intensify the struggle between opposing mental nostalgias, the conservative fantasy of a great past and the progressive fantastic future and, in my minor model, the tension between 'comprehension' (grasping mentally / holding on) and 'understanding' (standing under / letting go).

Seems like the vision may have been emerging popularly for awhile, as with the poem Ohm.

In terms of the timeline, it might be as Amanda Gorman recites in "Earthrise"
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SanteriSatama
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by SanteriSatama »

I liked that very much, thanks. Gebser's philosophy of time sounded very familiar. ;)
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AshvinP
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by AshvinP »

Lou Gold wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:58 pm Thanks Shu for the video. I vibe with it. It's almost tempting me toward reading some Gebser but I believe that I intuitively grok it. En route to the Integral, the Mental is deconstructing. This will intensify the fight between the mental models of Materialism vs Idealism. It will intensify the struggle between opposing mental nostalgias, the conservative fantasy of a great past and the progressive fantastic future and, in my minor model, the tension between 'comprehension' (grasping mentally / holding on) and 'understanding' (standing under / letting go).

Seems like the vision may have been emerging popularly for awhile, as with the poem Ohm.

In terms of the timeline, it might be as Amanda Gorman recites in "Earthrise"
Just my humble advice - don't resist your temptation aka intuition to read Gebser. The E-PO is a masterpiece. It's available on Kindle.
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
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Lou Gold
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Lou Gold »

Ashvin,

I read the preface at Amazon and liked it. I may add it to my Kindle. However, in this age of the too-easy-click, I tend to load up without reading. My bad! Thanks for the encouraging advice.
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

Lou Gold wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:58 pmEn route to the Integral, the Mental is deconstructing. This will intensify the fight between the mental models of Materialism vs Idealism. It will intensify the struggle between opposing mental nostalgias, the conservative fantasy of a great past and the progressive fantastic future and, in my minor model, the tension between 'comprehension' (grasping mentally / holding on) and 'understanding' (standing under / letting go).


For sure, the transitional tension and struggle of oppositional resistance ~ while futile since the transition can't be prevented ~ will be an ongoing factor and challenge. Alas, as the rather grim aphorism goes, it often proceeds one funeral at a time.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
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Lou Gold
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Lou Gold »

Soul_of_Shu wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 8:53 pm
Lou Gold wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:58 pmEn route to the Integral, the Mental is deconstructing. This will intensify the fight between the mental models of Materialism vs Idealism. It will intensify the struggle between opposing mental nostalgias, the conservative fantasy of a great past and the progressive fantastic future and, in my minor model, the tension between 'comprehension' (grasping mentally / holding on) and 'understanding' (standing under / letting go).


For sure, the transitional tension of oppositional resistance ~ while futile since the transition can't be prevented ~ will be an ongoing factor and challenge. Alas, as the rather grim aphorism goes, it often proceeds one funeral at a time.
I believe that this raises an interesting dilemma for the model of BK, which stresses mentality although the Integral is somehow not the Mental.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
SanteriSatama
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by SanteriSatama »

Lou Gold wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:12 pm I believe that this raises an interesting dilemma for the model of BK, which stresses mentality although the Integral is somehow not the Mental.
Integral is not the mental (metacognitive), it's going mental with archaic, magic and mystical. :o
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Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Idealist vision for 2050?

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

I believe that this raises an interesting dilemma for the model of BK, which stresses mentality although the Integral is somehow not the Mental.


Indeed, we're still stuck with the outmoded praxis and lingo of the preceding stage.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
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