Rudolf Steiner's Fifth Gospel by John David Ebert

[findingblanks]

Much of what you say is beautiful and works poetically and can fit into all kinds of spiritual models. LIke I said, I have much respect for Steiner in many ways. But he could be very wrong for many different kinds of reasons. His comments about non-white skin are just flat wrong despite the fact that they sounded very sensible when he said them, especially because they fit perfectly within very common assumptions at the time.

I'm traveling but if you really want to read the entire lecture, I'm happy to email it to you. Please remind me in a few days if you want me to send it. I absolutely will.

[Lou Gold]

No, I haven't read that particular lecture. Please send me a PM.

I don't claim that Steiner is infallible and that he hasn't expressed one-sidedly or even erroneously at times. He was a human after all. For example, his scientific courses have errors - things that don't match facts later discovered. Some of his ideas about orbital mechanics were also wrong. He speaks of this in his autobiography:

Only it will be necessary to remember there are errors in the lectures which I did not revise.

The right to an opinion in regard to the content of such privately printed material can naturally be
admitted only in the case of one who knows what is taken as the pre-requisite
basis of this judgment. For most of those pamphlets such a pre-requisite will
be at least the anthroposophic knowledge of man and of the cosmos, in so far
as its nature is set forth in anthroposophy, and of that which is found in
this information as "anthroposophic history" as it is taken from the
spiritual world.

Also

I have made it very clear in this account of the course of
my life that, even in childhood, I lived in the spiritual world as in that which was self-evident to
me, but that I had to strive earnestly for everything which pertained to a knowledge of the outer
world. For this reason I am a man slow in development as to all the aspects of the physical world.

In the above sense, it's quite easy for one who doesn't stop at the words, to penetrate the deeper stratum of the spiritual world that he is describing. If we read in this mood his scientific courses and astronomy lectures, even though there are physically incorrect things there, we can still discover in ourselves the spiritual realities that he was trying to project - even though he couldn't put them in the correct physical concepts. And that's actually inspiring because it shows how much more work is left to do - something that we should take on.


As far as the races, it's only necessary to keep in mind that genetically determined physical body does not equate with the soul (and he made that clear on many occasions). There can be advanced souls in bodies of color. At the same time - as it should be obvious to anybody - white skin is not at all a 'proof of quality'. There are souls incarnated in white-skinned bodies which are on lower stage of moral development than most savages. This we can see all around us.

The thing about the 2000 years has to do with the fact that there'll continue to be cultural groups who won't have any interest in developing the higher faculties of soul and spirit. And the key here is not to see this as a judgment or a prejudice. It would be simply false to assume that some cruel divinity has condemned certain souls to incarnate in environment that doesn't allow them to realize their fullest potential. It's the other way around - souls themselves seek the most appropriate conditions for their incarnation, such that they can experience whatever is suitable for them.

It should also be noted that the 'white' race will also remain as a historical cultural container. Currently the Western civilization mainly lives in the so called intellectual soul. There the "I" identifies with the thoughts it produces. The soul can only intellectually hypothesize its true nature as neurons, soul, energy, information, mind at large, etc. It can't really break away from thinking. We are now at a point of history where the consciousness soul is awakening. In that, the "I" finds itself as spiritual reality that doesn't need some intellectual support - it's the opposite - that spiritual reality brings forth the intellectual thoughts our of itself in a self-explanatory way. BK's Idealism is only one of the signs of the times that humans are groping towards this direction. In the coming centuries there'll be more and more souls that'll experience themselves as spiritual beings - not as belief but as immediate reality. These will at the beginning be a kind of 'outsiders'. Yet through the ages they'll become more and more and will form a new culture. But even then, the current white race will remain as a cultural container where souls will incarnate which have still work to do on the intellectual soul.

Cleric,

It sounds to me like you are very committed to an ascent orientation and to the storyline of progressive Western Civilization. In this sense I appreciate your words and know you mean the best. On the other hand, and not in competition, I do not hold similar commitments. In my personal experience, integration flows in multiple directions -- a step up requires a step down, fuller realization of self requires fuller realization of others. My greatest lessons in this lifetime have come from sensuous nature, the multi-hued and the less intellectual souls with whom I seem to have chosen this life to encounter. Experiencing one's soul as spiritual endlessly requires new balancing with all dimensions until one can truly say, "Mitakuye Oyasin".

[Cleric K]

It's true that I'm committed to ascent, simply because I'm not committed to descent, neither to eternal repetition. But I don't hold that the Western Civilization is ascending. It is actually declining. But nevertheless, there's something that can continue like an extract. Even though it's covered in mud, there's a tiny precious stone within the West (not necessarily the geographical West). Those who are able to wash away the mud will be able to take the gem forward. This is the Spirit that has fought its way to the physical world and now it can begin its transformation from within outwards. A large part would not see beyond the mud and would form the declining part of civilization. The mud is the "I" engulfed in egoism. The gem is the "I" that is willing to sacrifice the life of egoism and make way for Divine Life - the Life for the whole.

[Lou Gold]

It's true that I'm committed to ascent, simply because I'm not committed to descent, neither to eternal repetition. But I don't hold that the Western Civilization is ascending. It is actually declining. But nevertheless, there's something that can continue like an extract. Even though it's covered in mud, there's a tiny precious stone within the West (not necessarily the geographical West). Those who are able to wash away the mud will be able to take the gem forward. This is the Spirit that has fought its way to the physical world and now it can begin its transformation from within outwards. A large part would not see beyond the mud and would form the declining part of civilization. The mud is the "I" engulfed in egoism. The gem is the "I" that is willing to sacrifice the life of egoism and make way for Divine Life - the Life for the whole.

Yes, and this gem exists in many colors, cultures and containers. I understand that you don't think Western Civilization is ascending but rather that it is declining. Are you open to the possibility that it is declining because it over-privileged ascent? In my view, you have not really confronted, in these discussions, the problem of spiritual bypass, which can plague the ascent orientation and cast bad stones on others. Does one sacrifice the ego or develop a more relational and ecological ego? It seems to me that you are committed to a ego/soul duality and want one to triumph over the other. But the whole is an ego/soul integration.

I used to think about this during my youthful years of backpacking in the mountains. Some people seem to learn more going up and and some learn more coming down. In my view, going up is harder and coming down hurts more. However, it's not a one-way journey and there are essential discoveries all along the way.

I'm also trying to express, from a system rather than an individual point-of-view, that the mycorrhizal network in the soil is vastly more aware and intelligent than the great standing ones. There's a reason that the root-word for 'humble' is humus . Much more than somehow being 'anti-ego' it means being grounded in reality.

[Cleric K]

Does one sacrifice the ego or develop a more relational and ecological ego? It seems to me that you are committed to a ego/soul duality and want one to triumph over the other. But the whole is an ego/soul integration.

I'm all for integration. But we should make distinction between integration an equalization. Integration is achieved when the ego decides to serve the higher self. It's not about having one half egoism and one half Divine Love. The Divine Nature must triumph. We don't lose our ego, we don't feel slaves to something external. We just make up our mind that we're working in the best of our interest and those of all life - whether human or otherwise - when we strive to be an outlet of the Divine Nature, the Sun Nature. It's not triumph in the sense of humiliation. The Divine Nature is the Source of Life and Love for the whole. The ego is what the Divine Nature feels like when it interacts with a brain and physical body. Because our physical bodies and environment have become so decohered and out-of-phase with the Divine, it has become possible for the ego to deviate and seek its own egoistic goals. Integration is a very long process, it will take thousands and thousands of more years. But even in this moment we can say "Lord, here: all I have belongs to you. You, from your celestial perspective, can see what is the most beneficial way that I can serve the Whole. Illuminate my mind with your Light of Wisdom. Warm my heart with your Love. Invigorate my body with your Strength. Let my eyes and ears be open so that I can understand your mysterious plan and how I can make myself useful in this plan. Help me understand what you would do in my place. Then I'll do it in freedom, out of Love. Because I understand that only in this way I'll be doing the best for the All, from the limited bodily perspective that I've been given. Only in this way we can be One."

[Lou Gold]

Does one sacrifice the ego or develop a more relational and ecological ego? It seems to me that you are committed to a ego/soul duality and want one to triumph over the other. But the whole is an ego/soul integration.

I'm all for integration. But we should make distinction between integration an equalization. Integration is achieved when the ego decides to serve the higher self. It's not about having one half egoism and one half Divine Love. The Divine Nature must triumph. We don't lose our ego, we don't feel slaves to something external. We just make up our mind that we're working in the best of our interest and those of all life - whether human or otherwise - when we strive to be an outlet of the Divine Nature, the Sun Nature. It's not triumph in the sense of humiliation. The Divine Nature is the Source of Life and Love for the whole. The ego is what the Divine Nature feels like when it interacts with a brain and physical body. Because our physical bodies and environment have become so decohered and out-of-phase with the Divine, it has become possible for the ego to deviate and seek its own egoistic goals. Integration is a very long process, it will take thousands and thousands of more years. But even in this moment we can say "Lord, here: all I have belongs to you. You, from your celestial perspective, can see what is the most beneficial way that I can serve the Whole. Illuminate my mind with your Light of Wisdom. Warm my heart with your Love. Invigorate my body with your Strength. Let my eyes and ears be open so that I can understand your mysterious plan and how I can make myself useful in this plan. Help me understand what you would do in my place. Then I'll do it in freedom, out of Love. Because I understand that only in this way I'll be doing the best for the All, from the limited bodily perspective that I've been given. Only in this way we can be One."

My beloved guide told me, "Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love"

My daily prayer says,

The miracle occurs when the child appears in the lovely flower

This earth is the flower
We people are the child
May we work well together

May all manner of thing be well
May all manner of people be well
May there be peace on the holy mountain

The hymn from Santo Daime says,

I am the shine of sun
I am the shine of moon
I give shine to the stars
Because they all accompany me

I am the shine of sea
I live in the wind
I shine in the forest
Because she belongs to me

I don't do it in freedom. I do it because there's no other way to do it. To understand means to stand under.

[Cleric K]

Thanks for the prayers!

I don't do it in freedom. I do it because there's no other way to do it. To understand means to stand under.

But you still recognize that that there are also other ways. It's simply that they lead nowhere. You are free to explore the dead ends if you want but you choose to follow a way that seems to work. It's your choice to do the thing that works (in contrast to all other things that don't work). This choice is really free only if you feel all your Love for that way, if heart and mind are in perfect harmony with it. If we feel forced to go that way, just because it works (evaluated in the mind), while in our hearts we wish that there could be other working way, more to our liking, we're not really free. We're simply conforming out of necessity, even if our hearts wish otherwise.

[Lou Gold]

Thanks for the prayers!

I don't do it in freedom. I do it because there's no other way to do it. To understand means to stand under.

But you still recognize that that there are also other ways. It's simply that they lead nowhere. You are free to explore the dead ends if you want but you choose to follow a way that seems to work. It's your choice to do the thing that works (in contrast to all other things that don't work). This choice is really free only if you feel all your Love for that way, if heart and mind are in perfect harmony with it. If we feel forced to go that way, just because it works (evaluated in the mind), while in our hearts we wish that there could be other working way, more to our liking, we're not really free. We're simply conforming out of necessity, even if our hearts wish otherwise.

I'm blessed to have been given knowledge of what is in my heart. My choice is choiceless. With deep appreciation and gratitude, I acknowledge that there are many genuine loving paths of heart in a Divine Integrated Diversity. Praise and glory be.

[Lou Gold]

Thanks for the prayers!

I don't do it in freedom. I do it because there's no other way to do it. To understand means to stand under.

But you still recognize that that there are also other ways. It's simply that they lead nowhere. You are free to explore the dead ends if you want but you choose to follow a way that seems to work. It's your choice to do the thing that works (in contrast to all other things that don't work). This choice is really free only if you feel all your Love for that way, if heart and mind are in perfect harmony with it. If we feel forced to go that way, just because it works (evaluated in the mind), while in our hearts we wish that there could be other working way, more to our liking, we're not really free. We're simply conforming out of necessity, even if our hearts wish otherwise.

I'm blessed to have been given knowledge of what is in my heart. My choice is choiceless. With deep appreciation and gratitude, I acknowledge that there are many genuine loving paths of heart in a Divine Integrated Diversity. Praise and glory be.

For clarification, here's the way a Lakota elder once put it, a way that I feel quite aligned with:


“You know, all of our religions are like spokes on a wheel. They all lead into the Sacred Center where the Creator is, and if you are on one of those spokes and move to the outside, then it is all about strict rules and regulations, and who is holy and who is not, and you have to hold on tight to your spoke or you will be spun off, but if you move into the center, then it is all about love and compassion, and when you get into the center, you can step around all of those other spokes without ever losing your connection to your own spoke.”

If this aligns with what you are saying, then we are essentially on the same page.

[SanteriSatama]

I'm also trying to express, from a system rather than an individual point-of-view, that the mycorrhizal network in the soil is vastly more aware and intelligent than the great standing ones.

How do you come to that conclusion? Is there a disassociation of a sort involved with the great standing ones, to begin with?