Formlessness><form as the uncaused, irreducible ontic fundamental

[Eugene I]

Beautifully expressed. But a bit wordy. Now what we need is some kind of symbol - perhaps an interlocking vertical and horizontal axis to represent the integration of those world views. The vertical is the ontic primary, so we could make that slightly longer. If the axis was metaphorically some kind of torture or execution device, it might also 'point' towards suffering that the integrated view both embraces and transcends.

And that's exactly the Christian cross where the separate ego-self dies and the core consciousness is resurrected and integrated into the formless vertical with its "hands" embracing the horizontal world of forms.

[Starbuck]

Beautifully expressed. But a bit wordy. Now what we need is some kind of symbol - perhaps an interlocking vertical and horizontal axis to represent the integration of those world views. The vertical is the ontic primary, so we could make that slightly longer. If the axis was metaphorically some kind of torture or execution device, it might also 'point' towards suffering that the integrated view both embraces and transcends.

And that's exactly the Christian cross where the separate ego-self dies and the core consciousness is resurrected and integrated into the formless vertical with its "hands" embracing the horizontal world of forms.

Indeed, very few Christians I've ever met will thank you for pointing that out however

[AshvinP]

Beautifully expressed. But a bit wordy. Now what we need is some kind of symbol - perhaps an interlocking vertical and horizontal axis to represent the integration of those world views. The vertical is the ontic primary, so we could make that slightly longer. If the axis was metaphorically some kind of torture or execution device, it might also 'point' towards suffering that the integrated view both embraces and transcends.

And that's exactly the Christian cross where the separate ego-self dies and the core consciousness is resurrected and integrated into the formless vertical with its "hands" embracing the horizontal world of forms.

Amen! The ego-self dies so that it may be reborn in a transfigured form. We all experience that when we sacrifice an important aspect of our personality, perhaps an unhealthy addiction or relationship, to make room for another in our process of growth-maturation. There are few things more difficult to sacrifice than one's own self-image.

[Soul_of_Shu]

There are few things more difficult to sacrifice than one's own self-image.

For sure ... In this case it took the indelible revelation that That which in essence is experiencing this personified self-image is not a person, but that fundamental, aware quiddity to which all such imagery can be traced as its imperative ideation. So absent the notion that one's ipseity is somehow other than, or apart from That, the sacrifice becomes, if not easy, at least understandable. And yet the sacrifice seems twofold: the one made for the sake of having this personal, relational experience, and the other made to then forsake it. As BK writes at the very end of DJM, 'Ours are indeed sacrificial lives ...'