Does evolution reward the perception of truth?

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AshvinP
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Re: Does evolution reward the perception of truth?

Post by AshvinP »

Jim Cross wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:14 pm Ashvin,

Where did I presuppose materialism? I am arguing space-time is real because we can measure and predict things using it. I didn't say anything about what it or its contents are made of. It could be made of your shared ideation-ideas. It could be made of green cheese.

I am also saying it is real, but the disagreement is over what is real about it. You claim the quantitative measurements are what is real - that presupposes materialism, because quantitative measurements could only be something existing independently of our own Thinking under materialism. Without that presupposition, those measurements must be expressions of our shared ideation-ideas which give those measurements any meaning. There are no free-floating measurements that have meaning independent of our ideational activity. And that is what I conclude is real about dimensions of space-time - the qualitative meaning they are imbued with via our ideational activity. I am actually writing an essay right now precisely about this qualitative meaning of spatiotemporal dimensions. Cleric's recent Time-Consciousness essay also illustrated what I am saying here. But I have no illusion that you will read either of them... but not just you, probably 70-90% of people following the forum will not read them. It seems a lot of people want to get easy and quick answers about these matters while putting minimal possible effort into understanding them.
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
Jim Cross
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Re: Does evolution reward the perception of truth?

Post by Jim Cross »

Ashvin,

So nothing exists independently of our own thinking? Isn't that just some variation of solipsism?

Now who is presupposing? You are presupposing your conclusion.

I am saying it is real because we can measure and predict with it. I am not making an ontological statement about what it is. Like I said it could be green cheese.
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AshvinP
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Re: Does evolution reward the perception of truth?

Post by AshvinP »

Jim Cross wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:49 pm Ashvin,

So nothing exists independently of our own thinking? Isn't that just some variation of solipsism?

Now who is presupposing? You are presupposing your conclusion.

I am saying it is real because we can measure and predict with it. I am not making an ontological statement about what it is. Like I said it could be green cheese.

Sure if you want to call it that, but it's undeniably the only thing we know for certain - that all observations about the world are mediated by our Thinking and imbued with meaning.

I am not presupposing the conclusion - I haven't even stated a conclusion. It's just undeniable from experience that I perceive meaning in all that I observe and that all quantitative measurements are my own abstractions. It could not possibly be any other way. Just because that undeniable fact undermines your conclusion that quantitative properties of space-time are real does not make it any less undeniable.
“It is your presumption that freedom is something which you already possess that ensures that you will remain in chains."
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