Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

[Cleric K]

So what do y'all make of 'Seek first the Kingdom, and all these things shall be added unto you?'

Is the transfigured Thinking the actual Kingdom, or one of the add-ons?

Are the Kingdom-steeped Bodhisattvas hanging about in forums such as this one arguing over the sure-fire route, or instead using the add-ons to the benefit of the still spellbound suffering-prone ones who still await their destined encounter with the Revelation, however many lifetimes it may take?

I'm not sure who this is directed to but my response is yes, transfiguring our thinking into Thinking is not other than seeking the Kingdom. We are asked to take a deep curiosity and interest in the world so that we may rediscover the spiritual from within the world and ourselves. Nothing can be overcome without Self-knowledge, which is not other than knowledge of the Cosmos at large. From personal flaws and tragedies to systemic catastrophes, this higher knowledge is what opens the door to meaningful engagement. It is such a radically simple truth which has been obscured in the modern age. So obscured, in fact, that idea-lists also ignore it and remain spellbound. Yet, at the same time, no one dares to argue against it either, as in make a considered and substantive argument challenging it.

Ashvin already addressed this but to put yet another angle on it (we can never look at things from too many angles).

Let's look at the wider context of the verse:

31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Here the Gospel informs us about the proper principles of Creation, which in our sensory spectrum we have gradually turned upside down. Why is providing the basic needs for survival so difficult on Earth? Because of the out-of-phase relationships between beings. In other words, the reign of egoism. Let's think of the stock market. Why is the stocks graph so complicated? Because it is the result of multitude of conscious perspectives which would like to pull it in their own interest. As a result we get a highly non-linear and practically impossible to predict behavior. It's impossible to predict because no one wants it to be predictable. Well, in general everyone wants to be able to predict it but in such a way that only they have the secret knowledge and can profit from it. If everyone could predict it then the whole game would become meaningless. So we have a perfect example how human beings are in a situation where they need to perpetuate the chaos and unpredictability in order to keep their game going.

This is a general picture of the whole Fall. Paradise corresponds to a highly correlated 'wave function' of the Earthly realm. It's like a healthy organism where the kingdoms of nature are like the Earth's bodily systems - mineral realm would correspond to the skeletal system, the plant kingdom would correspond to the life processes, the animal kingdom to consciousness, pain, pleasure, joy, perceptions, and finally Man would correspond to the Solar Logos that looks through the bodily systems of the Earth and reflects in them his self-consciousness. Needless to say, that picture would be very different from the Earth of today. Everything would be, if we may use the expression, made of pliant imaginative substance, which responds livingly to the impulses of the Spirit. If we have to put it into a scientific picture, we could say that quantum tunneling would be the norm within the wave function of this Earthly organism. Everything would be just barely reaching the threshold of decoherence.

The story of the Fall is the story of the organs of the Earth's organism going progressively out-of-phase. In this way the plants, animals were gradually differentiated and became independent and even, instead of living in symbiotic relationships which are normal in any healthy unitary organism, they begin to feed on each other. This paints a diametrically opposite picture of evolution, in comparison to the materialistic vision. Instead of starting with inert matter, passing through self-replicating chemicals, then to proto-cells, prokaryotes, eukaryotes, multicellulars, we have practically the opposite. We have a grand symbiotic organism, which as said, has not yet any atomic structure, cells, etc. In esoteric language we could say that it was of etheric nature, barely approaching the threshold of mineralization (decoherence of the wave function). As the life processes within this spiritual organism began to go out-of-phase, higher beings predicted that this would quickly lead to dissolution so the process had to be counteracted. Somehow it was needed that even though the etheric substance would decohere into particle waves, it's characteristic dynamics should be preserved. That's how biological life begins to take form. Biological life is nothing else but 'frequency gradient' that serves to transduce the etheric dynamics (higher order wave functions) all the way down to the decohered particle waves. In this way the etheric life processes could continue to guide the particle waves along the gradient, even in the midst of severe mineralization. The Earth organism (which is practically the Cosmic Man's Body) began to differentiate its 'organs' into the various genus of plant and animal life. Unicellular life precipitated from the higher forms as even more fragmented life processes. And the mineral kingdom of today is the particle wave remnants of primordial etheric life processes. The physical form of man was that which could resist in the greatest degree the decoherence process and preserve its ability to become bearer of the Spirit, the "I", now not from Cosmic perspective at the periphery of the Earth, but as an "I" that experiences reality from within a physical bodily perspective.

Let the above stand as a fairytale, a modern language myth. It's exactly the opposite of the materialistic myth of abiogenesis but just maybe that's also the reason that so far no one can reproduce any such abiogenetic process - even in theory.

So in this scenario of the Earth organs going out-of-phase and devouring each other, everything becomes much more difficult, much more resisting, with much greater friction. (please note that the above picture is greatly simplified. For example, the kingdoms of Nature have their Cosmic counterparts too, it's not all within the Earthly body.) That's how we reach the story in Genesis where it's said "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." (clearly here it's being spoken about the Earthly man, made of the Earth's substance. The Spirit of Man comes from elsewhere)

So in the Fall man has to worry about food and clothing. He is pressed down by the environmental forces and he has to fight for his survival. Now we're getting back to the Kingdom. The Sun Spirit, the "I", has made its way into the dense decohered Earthly spectrum. Now it begins its work of bringing back the resonant harmonic relations of the Cosmic Organism. This is what everyone of us does individually through Thinking in which the "I" manifests. So far humans are busy hijacking this Thinking for the satisfaction of egoistic desires which perpetuates the out-of-phase relationships, keeps the stock market graph chaotic and makes everyone worry for the 'daily bread'.

The Gospel tells us that we can never fix things by focusing on the bread. As long as the decohering forces rule, the bread will always be uncertain. Instead, the Gospel invites us to first seek the Kingdom and its righteousness. What does this mean? It starts from the individual. Each person is an image of the Cosmic organism. As Thinking is recognized more and more as manifestation of the Cosmic Spirit within the sensory spectrum, it becomes more and more empowered, it becomes creative. Today it is entirely within reach of every human being to take their destiny in their own hands. By enlightening our Thinking, filling our hearts with Love and conducting through our Will only noble and righteous deeds, we begin to restore the coherence within our own being. This leads to actual healing. Of course it's of great significance also what we eat, drink, breathe. We can't expect to elevate ourselves spiritually while at the same time we destroy our physical vessel.

Once these powerful impulses move beyond the individual we already have the means for transformation of family and social life. All of this can only happen by completely free and fully conscious individual initiative. Ultimately, as the invisible structure of the Cosmic organism begins to be harmonized, the effects of the Fall begin to be reversed. In the far future this will extend to the other realms of Nature, for example man will be able to communicate with the animal kingdom. If we may use the expression, to live in such a harmonic spectral structure would be as having perpetual luck. Food will be there when needed, the right beings will cooperate when needed and so on, just as in a healthy organism a cell receives its nutrition on time, it gets its immune defense on time and so on. Of course all of this will happen not instinctively but fully consciously it will be up to us to create these resonant and harmonic relations within the spectrum of existence. Clearly this is still very far ahead of time. And the funny thing is that humans still don't even know that such a work must be undertaken.

(I'll leave the Bodhisattva topic for another time. This post is long enough already - sorry about that!)

[AshvinP]

So what do y'all make of 'Seek first the Kingdom, and all these things shall be added unto you?'

Is the transfigured Thinking the actual Kingdom, or one of the add-ons?

Are the Kingdom-steeped Bodhisattvas hanging about in forums such as this one arguing over the sure-fire route, or instead using the add-ons to the benefit of the still spellbound suffering-prone ones who still await their destined encounter with the Revelation, however many lifetimes it may take?

I'm not sure who this is directed to but my response is yes, transfiguring our thinking into Thinking is not other than seeking the Kingdom. We are asked to take a deep curiosity and interest in the world so that we may rediscover the spiritual from within the world and ourselves. Nothing can be overcome without Self-knowledge, which is not other than knowledge of the Cosmos at large. From personal flaws and tragedies to systemic catastrophes, this higher knowledge is what opens the door to meaningful engagement. It is such a radically simple truth which has been obscured in the modern age. So obscured, in fact, that idea-lists also ignore it and remain spellbound. Yet, at the same time, no one dares to argue against it either, as in make a considered and substantive argument challenging it.

Ashvin already addressed this but to put yet another angle on it (we can never look at things from too many angles).

Let's look at the wider context of the verse:

31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

[Soul_of_Shu]

(I'll leave the Bodhisattva topic for another time. This post is long enough already - sorry about that!)

Thanks Cleric ... this does put it into an intriguing perspective, and I may follow up with more questions ... Looking forward to the Bodhisattva musings.

[AshvinP]

No I agree there are definitely non-metaphysical issues at play here, I am just saying those issues deserve deep discussion and consideration just as much if not more as the metaphysical ones.

To be sure, that's why there are marriage councillors, and when even that doesn't get at the underlying issues, therapists/shamans skilled at delving into the shadowlands of the psyche ... and alas divorce lawyers. In any case, those issues don't often get resolved without some sort of skilled intervention, which, with respect to all participants, I'm not sure is going to be found in this forum. But insofar as it is bound to get down-and-dirty personal, there's always PM mode, which the Mod doesn't see at all.

I think this gives too little credit to the Wisdom of the metamorphic progression, as Cleric just illustrated in his last post. It's quite possible to get pretty deep into the very heart of matters even on this digital forum, as long as the person reading such typed out words views them in the proper Light. As Goethe put it, "if our eyes were not profoundly of the Sun, how could they behold the Light?". Another thing that should be mentioned in this context - the Anthroposophical view does not hold these cultural trends and ingrained habits of mind to be isolated things, rather they are reflections of that metamorphic progression and should be recognized as such. In fact, there is no phenomenal experience too "narrow" or too "broad" to lack profound relevance to these philosophical and spiritual dynamics. The dominance of mechanistic and flattened abstract intellect critique we have been making, for ex., is not just a dig at people who think abstractly (as I myself do), but something Steiner spoke of and warned of incessantly, as it reflects much deeper spiritual forces at work. Obviously people are generally not comfortable thinking of it that way, and I am not asking anyone to agree with me on faith, but my point is that we see all of these things as relevant and worthy of pointing out and contemplating deeply.

[Soul_of_Shu]

I think this gives too little credit to the Wisdom of the metamorphic progression ...

In the words of one Bodhisattva ... "Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

Question: How is it possible that it is ever not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me, and that, however it may otherwise appear, however deprived it may seem, it could ever be other than the Father doing his work, even as it is mistaken for something else at work? Oh Father in me, how is it you perceive some poor, hapless, ignorant fool in the Mirror, that is none other than One's own visage?

[Eugene I]

As it keeps happening, I will keep pointing it out - red assertion is completely contradicted by blue one. And the "collective subconscious" cannot be equated with personal "projections".

Obviously, from the perspective of unreliable NDE-OBE accounts further complicated by the fact that they are using abstract culturally-conditioned 2-D concepts to describe their 3-D and 4-D experiences, it will inevitably be "inconsistent" and seem as "dream-like projections" (also there is no reason to assume our actual dreaming states do not lift us into higher realms). These are truly trivial observations being made. The fact that you are still assuming Cleric has not factored this repetitive "point" into his understanding still astounds and confounds me.

IMO Cleric's knowing-experiences are similar to Franklin Merrell-Wolff and Bob Monroe and many others' and are similarly individual and collective subconscious projections/manifestations culturally conditioned by his Christian beliefs (so, in his case, projections of collective Christian faith archetypes). There is an abundance of similar visionary experiences from Christian mystics and ordinary believers over the history, for example, List of Marian apparitions. I'm not suggesting they are personal hallucinations, it is more likely that there are beyond-physical realm beings participating in the manifestations of these evens, but what those beings are projecting to us is a manifested reality based on their collective conscious and unconscious intentions and beliefs.

Many NDE experiencers described the beyond-physical realm as the community of conscious beings voluntarily grouped in a variety of "groups of interest", every group having their own perspectives, values, intentions etc. This physical reality is governed by rather structured rules possibly imposed by the Source, but in spite of the seeming rigid rules and structures there is a lot of flexibility in how the physical reality is manifested, and all groups of interest participate in its manifestation and the way it unfolds. Also, there groups have their residential" sub-realms in the beyond-physical realm (so Christian souls reside in a paradise-like realm with Christ as their "Sun Man" local group leader, Buddhists reside in Pure-Land realms led by the Buddhas, Anthroposophists reside in the realm described by Cleric and also connected to and governed by Christ, and so on). So if someone, based on their beliefs and dispositions, belong to one of the groups (say Christian, Anthroposophical, Buddhis etc) they will experience the beyond-physical reality according to their groups beliefs, values and intentions. What this means that the beyond-physical reality is multifold and multi-realm, and a lot of NDE experiences confirm that quite explicitly.

So where are we all as a community of incarnate and discarnate souls heading, what is the telos of all this reality? Is it the integration into the highest Self of the Sun Man, of Buddhist nirvana, or Advaitic dissolution into the Cosmic Consciousness? Is there a common universal goal/destination where all creation is heading? I like the way Steve Petermann phraised it in one of his essays: "God chose to experience life in all its forms". This is the telos of God's/MAL creation and life.

The point is, we can choose to ignore the NDE, OBE and clairvoyance evidences as unreliable, and that's fine, but in this case I don't see why we would be cherry-picking and rejecting the evidences of a huge number of these experiences while still holding the similar Cleric's experiences as true. But we can also choose to be open to these evidences, but in this case again why would we give more credibility to Cleric's experiences and discard the rest of the evidences?

[AshvinP]

I think this gives too little credit to the Wisdom of the metamorphic progression ...

In the words of one Bodhisattva ... "Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."

Question: How is it possible that it is ever not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me, and that, however it may otherwise appear, however deprived it may seem, it could ever be other than the Father doing his work, even as it is mistaken for something else at work? Oh Father in me, how is it you perceive some poor, hapless, ignorant fool in the Mirror, that is none other than One's own visage?

It is not essentially possible, I would say, yet there are differing qualities of Mirror, some which do not reflect the Light back to their Source as purely as others.

[AshvinP]

As it keeps happening, I will keep pointing it out - red assertion is completely contradicted by blue one. And the "collective subconscious" cannot be equated with personal "projections".

Obviously, from the perspective of unreliable NDE-OBE accounts further complicated by the fact that they are using abstract culturally-conditioned 2-D concepts to describe their 3-D and 4-D experiences, it will inevitably be "inconsistent" and seem as "dream-like projections" (also there is no reason to assume our actual dreaming states do not lift us into higher realms). These are truly trivial observations being made. The fact that you are still assuming Cleric has not factored this repetitive "point" into his understanding still astounds and confounds me.

IMO Cleric's knowing-experiences are similar to Franklin Merrell-Wolff and Bob Monroe and many others' and are similarly individual and collective subconscious projections/manifestations culturally conditioned by his Christian beliefs (so, in his case, projections of collective Christian faith archetypes). There is an abundance of similar visionary experiences from Christian mystics and ordinary believers over the history, for example, List of Marian apparitions. I'm not suggesting they are personal hallucinations, it is more likely that there are beyond-physical realm beings participating in the manifestations of these evens, but what those beings are projecting to us is a manifested reality based on their collective conscious and unconscious intentions and beliefs.

Many NDE experiencers described the beyond-physical realm as the community of conscious beings voluntarily grouped in a variety of "groups of interest", every group having their own perspectives, values, intentions etc. This physical reality is governed by rather structured rules possibly imposed by the Source, but in spite of the seeming rigid rules and structures there is a lot of flexibility in how the physical reality is manifested, and all groups of interest participate in its manifestation and the way it unfolds. Also, there groups have their residential" sub-realms in the beyond-physical realm (so Christian souls reside in paradise-like realm, Buddhists reside in Pure-Land realms, Anthroposophists reside in the realm described by Cleric and so on). So if someone, based on their beliefs and dispositions, belong to one of the groups (say Christian, Anthroposophical, Buddhis etc) they will experience the beyond-physical reality according to their groups beliefs, values and intentions. What this means that the beyond-physical reality is multifold and multi-realm, and a lot of NDE experiences confirm that quite explicitly.

The point is, we can choose to ignore the NDE, OBE and clairvoyance evidences as unreliable, and that's fine, but in this case I don't see why we would be cherry-picking and rejecting the evidences of a huge number of these experiences while still holding the similar Cleric's experiences as true. But we can also choose to be open to these evidences, but in this case again why would we give more credibility to Cleric's experiences and discard the rest of the evidences?

These are good questions. I am sure Cleric himself will have better answers, but for now I would say (1) why are we assuming Franklin Merrell-Wolff experience-knowing of higher realms (or anyone else's) are "projections/manifestations" which are real but so distorted, according to you, that they are rendered practically useless for purposes of objective verification via another's inner experience? It seems each one should be evaluated on its own merits without prejudice one way or the other.

And (2) why don't we post one of these NDE-OBE accounts you are speaking of and compare-contrast with Cleric's illustrations here, which he always makes clear are abstract models and not to be confused with the Reality itself - yet are still sufficient to point us in the right direction towards the sorts of supersensible intelligences and their activities we are dealing with - so that we can discern their comparative qualities? I suspect there will be a stark difference and most of the ones you are speaking of will have very minimal concrete illustration of the concepts and will lack an inner logic of concepts-images which work together harmoniously in the light of our Reason.

[Soul_of_Shu]

It is not essentially possible, I would say, yet there are differing qualities of Mirror, some which do not reflect the Light back to their Source as purely as others.

Good ol' Dad, aka yours truly, is on a Mirror-refining journey of Self-perpetuating revelation, until all those poor, hapless, ignorant others are realized as the Light they were never actually not ... Yes, even the Taliban!

[Eugene I]

Here are some of my favorites from Nanci
Creation
What is Manifesting Reality?
Reincarnation
The Power of Beliefs