Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Any topics primarily focused on metaphysics can be discussed here, in a generally casual way, where conversations may take unexpected turns.
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Eugene I
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by Eugene I »

Steve Petermann wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:07 pm Right, this is why I reject Advaita Vedanta and Buddhist "end games". As you say, what was the point? Life is such a grand adventure with both its sorrows and joys. Personally, I hope there is nothing like a heavenly existence, as typically described. I suffer just like everyone else, but there is such a meaningful profoundness to life why would we want anything else? Sure, we hope our sufferings will abate and joys increase. This does happen from time to time and we can and should work fervently toward that. Inevitably, things change and we must face new challenges but this also creates such an opportunity for personal and global spiritual growth. In each new situation, we can step up and work for the good and beautiful.
I agree, Steve.
Just finished reading your essays today. Your theology makes perfect sense to me.
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kanzas anymore" Dorothy
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by Steve Petermann »

AshvinP wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:50 pm I see Cleric has asked several times about the linear "clocking" time issue and it would be nice to hear you guys respond to that.
I try to follow physics and have heard several theories about time. From a scientific perspective, I'm baffled. I think many scientists also find time baffling. Delayed choice experiments in quantum mechanics seem baffling. Do we live in a block universe where every event already "exists"?

My typical approach towards scientific theories is to wait for something to become well-established. That may get overthrown eventually or modified but to be reasonable, that's all we have to go on for now. So, I'll wait for something more definitive concerning time to see what implications it might have for theology. My general feeling is that time is a feature of the Divine Life — constrained finite being. Like so many other concepts, projecting theories about time onto the transcendent realm are probably meaningless.

The question for me is, is there some existential import to be had? Maybe or maybe not. Obviously, there can be metaphysical speculations about time (even based on versions in science), perhaps like Cleric's and yours. My general attitude for metaphysics is that it should strive to be minimal, only speculating where something seems reasonable, is actionable, and has existential importance. Others may want to speculate further from a minimal system and that's up to them. For me, when I hear or read about some metaphysical system where there are speculations upon speculations upon speculations, that raises bright red flags and turns me off. First, it may be impossible to decipher what is being asserted, and second, much of it doesn't seem relevant for a lived life. However, that is probably coming from my engineering mindset having worked as a design engineer for some 40 years. Design engineering typically tries to follow Einstein's approach: "Everything should be made as simple as possible — but not simpler." I think that's a good mindset for metaphysics as well.
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by Steve Petermann »

Eugene I wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:01 pm Just finished reading your essays today. Your theology makes perfect sense to me.
Thanks. It's nice to hear that it may be helpful in some way.
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by AshvinP »

Steve Petermann wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:37 pm
AshvinP wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:50 pm I see Cleric has asked several times about the linear "clocking" time issue and it would be nice to hear you guys respond to that.
I try to follow physics and have heard several theories about time. From a scientific perspective, I'm baffled. I think many scientists also find time baffling. Delayed choice experiments in quantum mechanics seem baffling. Do we live in a block universe where every event already "exists"?

My typical approach towards scientific theories is to wait for something to become well-established. That may get overthrown eventually or modified but to be reasonable, that's all we have to go on for now. So, I'll wait for something more definitive concerning time to see what implications it might have for theology. My general feeling is that time is a feature of the Divine Life — constrained finite being. Like so many other concepts, projecting theories about time onto the transcendent realm are probably meaningless.

The question for me is, is there some existential import to be had? Maybe or maybe not. Obviously, there can be metaphysical speculations about time (even based on versions in science), perhaps like Cleric's and yours. My general attitude for metaphysics is that it should strive to be minimal, only speculating where something seems reasonable, is actionable, and has existential importance. Others may want to speculate further from a minimal system and that's up to them. For me, when I hear or read about some metaphysical system where there are speculations upon speculations upon speculations, that raises bright red flags and turns me off. First, it may be impossible to decipher what is being asserted, and second, much of it doesn't seem relevant for a lived life. However, that is probably coming from my engineering mindset having worked as a design engineer for some 40 years. Design engineering typically tries to follow Einstein's approach: "Everything should be made as simple as possible — but not simpler." I think that's a good mindset for metaphysics as well.

I'm pretty confused here - Time does not have "existential importance" or is not "relevant for a lived life"? I cannot honestly think of a single thing that is more important for those practical concerns, small and large alike. In the modern age, and especially the last 100 years, the relationship has become extremely dysfunctional with time. We see this reflected in phrases such "I am running out of time", "running low on time"; "don't have the time", or "can't wait". We glance at our phones often to "check the time", always feel like time is moving "too fast" or, on the rare occasion we are engaged in important contemplation, "too slow". We are always "losing track of time". As Cleric points out, without the spiritual shift in perspective, we always feel like we are carried along the 'stream' of time helplessly. He illustrates these things very well in the essays I mentioned and again in a post responding to Eugene recently. I am wondering if you read those and have any thoughts about the specific contents? All too often I hear, "well it's just speculation and opinion", and now, "I'll wait until science tells me what Time is...". Time is what we are always experiencing, so it may be important to come to some conclusions for ourselves, especially since physical science is not going to shed much if any more light than it already did through QM and via Einstein's theory of GR. He also remarked:

"I want to know how God created this world. I'm not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts; the rest are just details." - Einstein

That is also what we are proposing here - moving beyond the fragmented details of this or that field of science and attaining a holistic sense of these disparate phenomenon by way of inner spiritual experience, which then also sheds Light on the details.
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by AshvinP »

Here is specifically the point I am referencing:

Cleric wrote:
Steve wrote:The problem with perfection is that this inevitably leads to an end to life with all its wonders of discovery, disappointment, defeat, and victory. In the end there is only silence and lifelessness.
Now I don't blame anyone for this kind of thinking, because it is so deeply ingrained that practically there's nothing else that it can be compared to - thus, it's operating completely unconsciously. That's also the reason why it's so difficult to point attention to this and why whatever I say on the topic goes in one ear and exits the other.

In the quote above (just like any other critique in that spirit) it is plainly obvious that there's not even a hint of questioning the nature of Time. It is seen entirely as a Divine Turing Machine (with free will of course) that ticks forward according to the Divine Newtonian Clock. It's imagined that the Machine reaches the halting state of perfection yet consciousness continues to tick along the Divine Clock. Divine Mind looks around stuck in the perfect state and wonders "What's the point? Everything froze. I'd much rather keep switching states endlessly than having to stay frozen in a perfect state and spend eternity witnessing how infinite amount of ticks clock by". Yes, if this is the vision for perfection I wouldn't be thrilled either :)

There's disconnect between our observation of change and our thinking about it. If this was not the case it would never occur to one to speak about a static lifeless state where nevertheless consciousness continues to tick and becomes increasingly bored. I think the Descartes duality is obvious here. One cannot escape the clocking of the intellect and that's why he sees the experiential states as changing and eventually halting, yet one can't stop his thinking clock - one cannot see his thinking as also being part of the progression of experiential states. But this is not surprising granted that thinking is entirely in the blind spot of modern man and there's strong resistance to experience it as living spiritual activity, where thinking is the actual flow of states.

And then the essay which goes into "thinking is the actual flow of states" - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=509
"Most people would sooner regard themselves as a piece of lava in the moon than as an 'I'"
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by Eugene I »

We should not turn to physics to find any meaningful answers about the nature of time because currently QM and GR are in a complete contradiction with each other in that respect. Physicist are well aware of that. QM probabilism makes no sense in the GR block universe, and vise versa.

IMO manifestation of time is simply a part of MAL's manifestation of Life, because Life can not exists without time/change. God choosing Life to be means God choosing time to be.
"Toto, I have a feeling we're not in Kanzas anymore" Dorothy
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Adur Alkain
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by Adur Alkain »

Steve Petermann wrote: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:35 pm
As I said in a prior post, I'm ambivalent about the idea of spiritual evolution. On the one hand, I think that our explicated metaphysical systems have evolved and become closer to the truth about the divine. These may cognitively and intuitively inform us better about our place in reality and our relationship to the divine. However, on the other hand, I don't think this explicated "progress" means that prior points in history were spiritually inferior in the sense of lived life. Explications aren't what is ultimately important. What is ultimately important is how we live, relate to others, our environment, and God. Explications can inform that lived life but in every age, there was still the divine transcendent depth at work. Tillich called this "the mystical a priori", Calvin called it "sensus divinitatis", and it has been described as "a still, small voice". When the rubber meets the road in a lived life that divine depth can be instantiated even in spite of "flawed" explications. In other words, we can still embrace our divine depth regardless of the explications we adhere to.

While I find great actionable wisdom and revelation in Christianity, I don't call myself a Christian anymore. I am unaffiliated. So, I'm not trying to reconcile anything with Christianity, as a system. One of the reasons for this and why I also find other major religious traditions not compelling is that they are world-rejecting. There are many other reasons as well. Prominent religious scholar, Robert Bellah talks about the evolution of religious sentiment and how when the major traditions emerged roughly before and during the axial age, there was a general world-rejection and dualistic sentiment. This world rejection inevitably leads to the need for some "fix". If something is fundamentally wrong with the world, as it is, then it is only natural that religious formulations will formulate some fixing process. So we get eschatology(end times) and soteriology (salvation schemes). I think the cosmos is fundamentally, exactly as God wants it. There is nothing to fix because it is shaped according to divine goals. Just as it is, it offers opportunities for lived moments of love, beauty, meaning, courage, faith in the face of doubt, compassion, grit, selflessness, and on and on. I talked about this here and how this very cosmos we living in makes all that possible.

Accordingly, I don't think there is an end game. How could there be an end to the creation of all those noble things I mentioned? This universe may end in heat death and it won't be because some idealized endpoint (omega point) has been reached. I don't like to speculate beyond that but I do believe that there will continue to be a Divine Life or many Divine Lives in some form, some similar to ours and some perhaps very different, all with divine goals in mind for them.
Steve,

I haven't been able of following the whole conversation here, but I really love what you say in all your posts. I especially loved this one (which I think you were referring to at the beginning of your latest):
Steve Petermann wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:22 am
This issue of spiritual or religious evolution is a difficult one for me. I do believe we see progress for the good as history has proceeded but there is always a counter-insurgency as well. Here are my worries with talking about spiritual evolution. First, it seems to denigrate the spirituality of early humans. Did the early animists have an inferior spirituality? As history has unfolded through the millennia do the religious and spiritual traditions represent spirituality that is lacking? Here's what I think. Each epoch presents unique challenges for finite beings. However, in every age there is a divine depth to everything and that depth exerts its influence, trying to create love, beauty, and meaning. Early hominids may have had a rudimentary framework within which they lived but I also think their divine depth worked within it. This is also true throughout the history of spirituality.

This spiritual evolution idea can also morph into an elitist hierarchy where only the few move along this evolutionary path to great heights. I think the basis target for any metaphysical system should be something like the uneducated cleaning person who works two jobs to support her children. If they can't be a paragon of spirituality then something is wrong with the system.

I also worry that this evolutionary sentiment can lead to unhelpful eschatological thinking. It goes something like this. Since there is spiritual evolution, at some point there will be an endpoint. Here we could think of becoming a Buddha or reaching de Chardin's omega point. This tends to cast a negative connotation on life where there needs to be a fundamental fix. I don't think this is what life is about. I've written about the problem of perfection and rejecting world rejection. I think the world is fundamentally exactly as God wants where the many things we admire (and speculating also God) are possible. What might those admirable qualities be? The list is large. Here are only a few: Love, Courage, Grit, Honor, Self-sacrifice, Vitality, Compassion, Creativity, Humility, Faith in the face of doubt, Long-suffering, Kindness, and on and on. Finite life makes these possible to have. Should there be an ending resolution to all this or some pinnacle to be had? I don't think so.
I also take issue with the notion of spiritual evolution. Especially if it implies a sort of necessary progress towards some eschatological endpoint. I don't think the spirituality of the present moment is in any way "superior" to the spirituality of the past. Even plants and animals have a spiritual nature, in my view, and it's in no way "inferior" to ours. Also, I don't think there is a single path for spirituality. Plants and animals are still around after all, and so are so-called "primitive people". The notion of a spiritual evolution is a very ethnocentric one: it assumes that contemporary Western thought is at the forefront of this supposed evolutionary movement.

Anyway. I feel inspired by your thoughtful comments. I think you are on the path to true wisdom! :)
Physicalists hold two fundamental beliefs:

1. The essence of Nature is Mathematics.
2. Consciousness is a product of the human brain.

But the two contraries are true:

1. The essence of Nature is Consciousness.
2. Mathematics is a product of the human brain.
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

Adur Alkain wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:29 am The notion of a spiritual evolution is a very ethnocentric one: it assumes that contemporary Western thought is at the forefront of this supposed evolutionary movement.
How so, as it seems to be a prevalent theme in Aurobindo's cosmology, and certainly even predating him in some schools of Vedanta ...

Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by Adur Alkain »

Cleric K wrote: Tue Aug 24, 2021 7:59 pm
Eugene I wrote: Mon Aug 23, 2021 7:28 pm Cleric, you should not assume that you are the only meditator here who practically work with and analyze the thoughts and conscious experiences on a regular basis. What you are describing here (observations and studies of the inter-relations of conscious phenomena "outside" of the framework of the ego) has been part of millennia of both Eastern and Western spiritual practices. We sit in meditation and observe the conscious phenomena - sensations, thoughts, imaginations and intuitions with their meanings, we analyze their interconnections, we have intuitions of how they are inter-related, we observe how our egoic structures function and respond. You are not the only one who do it on a regular basis. The difference is how we interpret these intuitions and insights ourselves and how we present them to people.
Eugene, I understand your sectarian concerns but nothing of this would be necessary if things were understood rightly. The above quote shows exactly that the point is being missed. I've made many attempts to explain the fundamental difference between Oriental and Occidental meditation. The possibility for the latter became possible only after the event on Golgotha. The methods have been slowly developed in the last two thousand years within the secret streams. The Rosicrucian impulse brings them to a high degree of refinement. Today this Initiatic science must flow in the general consciousness of humanity because we are at a time where we either penetrate into the true nature of the human being or we'll bounce back into a downward spiral of degeneration like we've never seen before.

This is one instance where I don't really know if I'm doing lousy job of explaining things, if they are simply not understood or they are intentionally misrepresented.

Shu, what I'm going to write here has direct relevance to Adur's work, so I'm not sidetracking the thread.

I'll make one more attempt to explain the essential nature of the contemporary method of Initiation.

Let's start with the Oriental method first. You're fully correct that observing conscious phenomena is not something new. Ashvin did a great job in his latest essays to draw the historical development of consciousness. The ancient Greeks also observed thoughts. What is changing in the course of evolution though, is how the I's relation to the thoughts metamorphoses.

Here's an imaginative picture:

Image

I remind that the above should not be thought of as an theoretical model of reality. It must be seen exactly in the way I explained about drawing circles representing hot and cold and connecting them with a line, representing the warmth gradient. Everything in these pictures corresponds to inner experiences, the images are only symbols for them.

The wave of spiritual upheaval that we witness today, almost exclusively has a picture like the above as basic understanding. It is heavily influenced by the Eastern teachings. The idea of 'pure consciousness' has become almost accepted in scientific circles that seek to push the boundaries of materialism. We can see it also in Adur's essay here, as with Almaas, Rupert Spira, Adyashanti, etc. The basic idea is that there is only (one) Consciousness which experiences flow of phenomena. Let the circle above represent the 'volume' of consciousness. The figures inside are phenomena, for example thoughts, which can be related, traced, etc. The basic idea behind popular 'enlightening' is that we are truly the experiencing Consciousness (symbolized with the eye at the periphery). The thing is that humans are preoccupied with the contents of consciousness. They are being constantly dragged around by thoughts, feelings, perceptions. The idea of popular meditation is that one has to detach from all these contents so that conscious phenomena can be observed objectively without allowing one to be dragged along. This eventually reveals even additional details (the greyed area) which so far have evaded our awareness - our attention has simply been preoccupied with other things.

So far so good. There's truly a lot that we can accomplish through introspective meditation like this. But this conception has certain very subtle consequences. Because it's assumed that we're the eye at the periphery, all spiritual development is conceived as the conscious volume becoming more and more impartially and clearly perceived. In other words, it's implicitly felt that everything that can ever be conscious phenomena is already in front of the eye of consciousness. We only need to refine our attention, such that we're not sucked in by the trivial phenomena but increase our sensitivity for everything else.

Let's use another analogy. If we're in a dark room and only a handful of objects are illuminated, these are the conscious phenomena for us. As long as all our life revolves around these objects we can say that we're in the world of Samsara. Popular enlightening conceives that we should shift our attention away from these objects and gradually we begin to notice other objects in the room which are less illuminated but still have always been part of the roomscape. This is the tracing of relation, interconnectedness, etc. of conscious phenomena. One thing is taken for granted though - that our observing position is already complete in itself. Adur's work makes this quite clear. We are the Universal Consciousness and the World Content comes into being just as refinement and filtration (according to the Law of Consistency) of what is already in front of our conscious eye. The rose is a rose - it's just a consensual amalgamation of color 'pixels' that fill the volume before the eye of Universal Consciousness.

All this is quite different different in the methods developed in the West in the last two millennia. The key for understanding this is that, as already said, the relation to thoughts has been slowly changing. The Greek was living with thoughts, he was looking for the proper relation of thoughts to Nature. When asked what is the force that produces these thoughts the Greek would answer - the Logos. Just as they had the Muses and all the other Divine beings, they felt that there's a mysterious force behind the ordering and rhythms of thoughts. Thinking for the Greek was like a gift of a math genius who without specific effort would just see the solutions to problems. Thoughts would flow in their mysterious logical ordering as if inspired by the Logos. All this changes after centuries. At the time of Descartes we already see how he could now fully identify with thinking process. Thoughts were not simply flowing as a stream of inspiration from a higher source, he could feel intimately responsible for each thought. This was so clear to him that it was the self-evident proof that his "I" exists because it sees its reflection in the thoughts it produces.

These things have always been the object of study in the mystery schools in the times after the event of Golgotha. The inspirer of thinking for the Greek, the Logos, has now moved within the human soul and now man could identify with the Logos itself - the spiritual force creating the thoughts, the creative principle of the living Universe.

This realization stands also at the base of the modern Initiation. For the oriental mystic the goal was to free from the enchantment of conscious phenomena so that he could observe clearly the conscious volume from the periphery. Thoughts would pop in and out of existence, their relations could be traced and so on, but the question of "What is the Source of these thoughts" never approaches the self. On the contrary, the tracing of the source of thoughts is at the foundation of higher development.

How can we trace the source of thoughts? Just observing thoughts and their relation doesn't reveal much of their origins. We can only speculate about them by adding more thoughts in the conscious volume. This is what the materialist does for example, when he builds his theory. The I/eye observes the thoughts and trumps them with more thoughts which say for example "These thoughts appear when neurons fire thus and thus". This doesn't really give experiential knowledge of their origin, it just replaces the immediate thought experience with more thoughts. It's the same in any other attempt to explain thoughts by covering them with more thoughts. Things are different when we focus on the very process of thinking, where we experience that thoughts are practically precipitations of our intuitively experienced spiritual activity. This is key. We now have not thoughts that replace other thoughts but we have actual living experience of the living spiritual activity from which thoughts precipitate.

This is not the end however. Anyone who honestly thinks about this will have to admit that even though we feel directly responsible for the thoughts, we can't claim that we know in full details why we think precisely the thoughts we think at a given moment. In other words, we feel that there are processes that precede the end product of thinking. We should say that materialists are more objective here because they properly assess that the thoughts are only an end product of underlying process. Mystics on the other hand believe that as long as they observe from the eye at the periphery everything is in front of them (even if not yet uncovered).

We've talked many times about this blind spot of consciousness. I've called it the inversion horizon in my latest essay. It's the threshold that divides the conscious phenomena in front of the eye, from the processes that lie behind it. This 'behind' doesn't exist for the mystic. Everything is in front of the eye of Universal Consciousness. The behind exists for the materialist theoretically but it's considered to be inaccessible for conscious experience.

Image

Above is a different picture which takes into consideration also the 'behind'. How can we actually know anything about this behind? Let's think logically. The thoughts are in front of us, we perceive them and we feel responsible for them. At the same time we feel that there are processes that shape and guide us through the landscape of consciousness. To put it into a metaphor, if we walk through a museum we have our thoughts about everything we see but at the same time the guide leads us around and determines for us the context within which we manifest our thoughts. It's similar in thinking, we're producing our thoughts but we're not fully aware of how we are being moved around the invisible landscape. We think now of one thing, the next moment we think about something else. Did we really choose consciously in what direction we've diverted our thoughts? Sometimes yes, but most of the time we're being simply carried along an invisible ideal landscape and we only verbalize our intuitions. So if we are really precise in our observations we can't fail but notice that there are forces unknown to us which throw us around the landscape and we're forced to think about whatever they take us to. The question now is, how can we become conscious of these forces?

It's clear that we can't know this by just doing more thinking. We already said that above - in this way we're simply covering our immediately experienced thought process with more and more thoughts. This is what we call speculations, interpretations, theories and hypotheses. None of these brings us closer to a real experience of the forces behind thinking. We can't do that by focusing on feelings, will, sensory perceptions, either. These again lead us away from the genesis of thoughts. We can never experience a thought being born out of a feeling. We can think about a feeling but the thought itself comes from our spiritual activity and meets the feeling. In this sense, mystical mediation can't tell us anything about the origin of thoughts either. There we push away all thoughts and succumb to universal feeling where we can no longer even speak of clear spiritual activity.

It is clear - we can only hope to experience something of the essence of thinking if we turn towards the essence itself. In other words, we can't find the essence of thinking where this essence is missing, thus we can only find in within thinking itself. For most people of our age, thinking is experienced as a unstoppable stream of words. We need to be able to stop this stream. Why? Because as long as we are being blindly carried by the invisible forces we can never be conscious of them. We live only with the consequences of the forces. We need to place ourselves in opposition to these forces, so to speak. We do that through concentration of our spiritual activity. It's like saying - "I'll anchor my spiritual activity and resist the forces that toss me around". This is similar to gravity. As long as we are in free fall gravity is undetectable. We only sense it when we have an anchor point, then gravity drags against us and we feel it. Similarly, as long as we're thinking automatically, we're as if in a free fall in the field of the invisible forces, thus we're not conscious of them. On the contrary, when we concentrate our thinking activity, we form an anchor within ourselves and begin to feel the forces dragging against us.

Most people would be able to concentrate only for a moment and the forces will take them again on their waves. Yet if we're able to sustain our concentration, our very concentrated activity becomes like a sense organ - we begin to feel how the forces impress in it. As a simplified metaphor, it's like we concentrate on the thought of a rubber ball. This thought is not only the form and color but also qualities like elasticity. If we can't sustain our concentration, we'll wander to other thoughts. If we can, we resist the forces, they imprint into our activity but can't move us off center. For example (again metaphorically speaking) the forces can press against our rubber ball thought and make a dimple in it. We don't see the forces themselves but they imprint (as seal into wax) into our activity. Through the way they modify our activity we become conscious of something like an inverted image of them. Remember - the forces don't modify the image - they modify our activity, which in turn is reflected in the image. Such images are commonly called Imaginations. I can't stress this enough, as it is misunderstood again and again - Imaginations are the reflections of higher order spiritual activity, similarly to the way ordinary thought-perceptions are reflections of the intuitively experienced intellectual meaning. They are not hallucinations (like in a psychedelic trip) that are being interpreted (divined) by the intellect. These images can be communicated. The drawing above is such an example. It's nothing that we can ever find anywhere in the sensory world, yet for anyone who has attained to these experiences, the above picture speaks as clearly as the line connecting the hot and cold dots. But even if one hasn't had such experiences, if they allow the image work upon them and set their thinking in motion, they'll be able to approach the living concepts out of which the image was reflected. This image can never work if we simply analyze it like a technical drawing. We need to livingly assume the position of the eye and experience how what is drawn corresponds to inner experiences.

Let's use another metaphor. Let's imagine that our thinking activity produces the thoughts similar to a stream of water spouting from a garden hose. The thought-perception is experienced where the stream splashes. In general, men of today are not conscious of the stream. We can glimpse momentarily at the stream when we focus on our thinking and try to experience livingly the fact that we're creating the thoughts. I'll remind of the exercise that I've described in the Time-Consciousness essay. When we concentrate on the light dot, the dot is the splash of water (the dot is our thought-perception), and our concentrating activity which we intuitively experience is the water stream, which we don't see visually but we understand intuitively as direct meaning (that's how we know that we're producing the light dot).

On the drawing above this stream is represented by the orange line. It's the thread of spiritual activity that comes from behind the eye and becomes perceptible in front of it. Through meditative methods like the above, when we concentrate on an appropriate image, we stabilize this thread. Then, as described above, we begin to sense how the most varied forces try to bend and move the thread. These forces are active all the time while we think in the ordinary sense and experience only the splash. They are like invisible hands that move the hose around and guide where we'll form the thought-splashes. Through concentration we begin to move along the stream and become conscious of the invisible forces that move it (by resisting them).

As we sustain our concentration for longer and longer periods of time, the Imaginations begin to build up. Initially they are not clear at all and we must resist the temptation to immediately begin thinking about them. The more we withhold thinking about them (with intellectual thoughts) the more we learn to live comfortably with them and understand their language. Gradually we find ourselves in a whole world where beings and processes weave and shape our ordinary flow of consciousness.

Here things connect with the Time-Consciousness essay. As explained there, as we move towards the higher order rhythms, there's also expansion of the 'now'. For example, from a certain point of view higher in the spectrum (the dashed-line eye) things look such that for example, a whole waking day is experienced as something simultaneous, as if the events are spread before consciousness as if side by side. This is a point of view that is natural for the part of our higher self that is called Manas. Through higher development we can actually glimpse at that perspective. Let's give a more concrete example.

First we should mention that from that higher perspective we don't see the physical world per se but the higher order forces (the astral or soul spectrum). Let's say that our soul needs a certain exchange of ideas with another person. Here I'll use a metaphor based on quantum mechanics' wave function. From the higher perspective we perceive our soul life not as something happening in the momentary now of our ordinary consciousness but as something spreading in time. It's like a wave function that holds within itself the potential for the most varied soul experiences. At that level exists also the soul body of the person in question. We can picture them imaginatively as cloud-like formations but I repeat - the form is not really spatial but temporal too. Although I say 'cloud', there's nothing nebulous in these clouds. They have almost infinite, fractal-like depth, experienced as dense and rich meaning that we can hardly imagine in the intellectual state. Even though we don't perceive the physical world in the sensory way we know it, these higher order wave functions give us a much more valuable and deep understanding of what the physical world really is. Things like 'distance' here don't have the same meaning as in 3D space. The distance between our soul bodies is determined by our affinity. What we can relate to, is close, what we can't, is far. So now our higher self begins to draw closer to the soul body wave function of the person. To draw closer means that the two wave functions become more and more in-phase, so to speak, they become resonantly attuned. From the perspective of the higher self, the soul bodies must become attuned so that they can make an exchange, just as antennas must be attuned to the same frequencies in order to transfer energy. From the perspective of our ordinary self everything goes in its daily rhythm as always. We jump from thought to thought, we go around. Yet unknowingly to us the wave function from within which we decohere our thoughts and actions has been shifting all the time. So it is for the other person. Gradually our actions converge in such a way that what we can call synchronicity occurs, and we 'accidentally' bump into our friend on the street. Then we start talking and the exchange is realized.

This of course is an idealized example. In reality there are multitude of higher order beings who superimpose their activities and modulate our overall wave function. For example, there might be another higher being who would like to prevent our meeting with the person by interfering with the attunement of the soul bodies, thus there would be much less chance for us to decohere our actions such that they lead to the synchronistic outcome.

We should bear in mind that everything explained above is infinitely alive and intelligent. The words 'wave function', 'attunement', etc. must be understood entirely imaginatively. They are only symbols for higher order reality. I decided to use them because they are useful but we should never allow them to become dead and abstract. There's nothing more horrific than trying to apply reductionist logic to the higher worlds and imagine them as made of vibrations or something like that. It should always be the opposite - our ordinary thoughts are like dead precipitation, like nails, hair, skin flakes, falling from the living spiritual. We should really strive for what is real and living.

This post turned out much longer than I intended but I really hope that this question is cleared now. It must really be comprehended that in the type of spiritual development described above, we're going in a direction that is completely ignored in the Eastern traditions. This is not criticism of Eastern lore because at these ancient times this was the highest thing achievable by the yogis. But humans of today need urgently to at least consider, that our ordinary consciousness is only the outermost tearing process of dying thoughts, decohered states of being. Behind this we have layers of living beings which form kind of a universal hierarchical or fractal-like wave function. The higher we go along this spectrum the more Time the waves encompass as a simultaneous whole. It is only through development of our consciousness that we can grow 'vertically' along the Time-Consciousness spectrum. Only in this way we can attain to freedom. Otherwise we decohere our spiritual activity wherever our guides lead us along the invisible landscape. We need living knowledge of this landscape so we can choose freely with what beings to associate. We are always associated with beings. As explained, they always interfere and superimpose in the wave function within which our destiny is unfolded. There's no way around that. But it is within our power to rise in consciousness and freely strengthen our connection with the beings which manifest the high ideal that we ourselves choose for ourselves. If our ideal is peace, love, brotherhood, we'll seek to manifest our potential together with beings who drive world development in that direction. If we want to live life for ourselves, to satisfy our own desires, have pleasures, then consciously or not, we associate with beings from whose wave functions we can manifest these things.

Now there may be complaints that this is difficult to read, that it's very complicated. And in a way I agree. But it's only so because people today are not used to this kind of viewing things. The reason mysticism is so popular today is simply because it's convenient. It doesn't really demand anything special. Everything is already in front of us, we just need to refine the picture. But things are not that simple. Actually, in a way they are simple, but since humans have deviated so much into the domain of abstract thinking it is now very difficult for them to revert to livingly experienced spiritual activity. Yet it's an effort that we must put. It's quite literally a question of life and death for humanity. We either grow into the depths of reality or we'll increasingly become victims of higher beings who guide our wave functions in their own interests and poor humans will succumb even deeper in egoism until they finally destroy each other.

As a final I want to once again turn attention to the 'inversion horizon'. This is nothing else but the threshold at the eye in the drawings, where things are divided into front and behind. The critical task today is to bring forth the knowledge of how to address the behind, that which is greater than us, which is invisible to the physical senses, yet which continuously shapes the palette out of which we decohere our thoughts, feelings and actions. Unless we enter into conscious relations with the beings that weave within that part of the spectrum, we'll forever remain as leaves blown by the winds. We need the missing science of prayer. Prayer not as weak beings that worship remote gods but as fully conscious spiritual activity of free human beings. The opening of the soul in humility and mood of prayer is the attunement of the wave function to the potential of our high ideal, a process of osmosis that brings into manifestation our highest aspirations.
Cleric,

I took the time to read this long post, since you said it has direct relevance to my work.

I obviously can't understand completely everything you are saying (I feel I would need a few years of dedicated study to get there :)), but I can offer a few comments:

You can't put Almaas in the same box (call it "mysticism" or whatever) with Rupert Spira or Adyashanti. Almaas's teaching is very complex and rich, I actually think you'd find it interesting (since you obviously like complexity). And it's not rooted (exclusively) in Eastern thought. It integrates many elements from Western psychology and philosophy, and from Sufism (which is a Western tradition).

My "Intuitive Idealism", although partly inspired in Almaas's work, is a crude simplification in which I try to offer an extremely simple explanation of physical reality. I'm sure Almaas wouldn't endorse it in any way (he started his career as a physicist, btw).

I think it's important to distinguish between physical reality (which is relatively simple) and the infinite richness and complexity of our conscious experience, including thought. I don't think it makes sense to apply notions like "wave function" to our inner conscious life, even if you do it as a metaphor. Those metaphors can only be misleading and confusing.

There is no reason to think that the regularities we see in the physical world have to correspond necessarily to some deeper level of reality, call it "higher order" or whatever. I think the synchronicities you are talking about (like bumping into your friend on the street), which obviously must come from some sort of "higher order", have no connection with the regularities that physical science studies. And I don't believe for a minute that the "higher order" responsible for those synchronicities is also responsible for my thoughts. (I personally find that this sort of synchronicities happen to me much more often when I'm more present; in other words, when I'm not lost in thoughts.)

I think this "higher order" responsible for the harmony and orderliness of reality (not just physical reality) is what Almaas calls the logos or Creative Dynamism, one of the boundless dimensions of true nature. It is infinitely creative and dynamic, and it can't be captured by discursive thought. It also implies absolute freedom.

I don't believe you can reach that "higher order" by concentrating on your own thoughts, which is what you seem to be proposing. I guess what you propose is more sophisticated than that, but still, it all sounds like a very long shot to me. (Then again, I'm probably misunderstanding what you are saying.)

Almaas distinguishes between basic knowing (which is a direct knowing of the nature of reality and of all the inexhaustible qualities of experience, and is a fundamental property of consciousness) and ordinary or discursive knowing (which is what I would call thinking, and I believe is the result of brain activity). When things get so complicated as in your posts, I think we are in the realm of discursive thinking. And I don't think discursive thinking has the capacity to reach the truth.

The abstract thinking that most humans find themselves trapped in is in my view the result of automatic information processing happening in the brain. The way to liberate the soul from this automatic thinking is not to focus on those automatic thoughts to try to find out how that information processing works, but to disidentify from those automatic thoughts and realize that our true identity lies in the underlying consciousness. This consciousness is where the real knowing, basic or direct knowing resides. Discursive knowing is ony a distorted reflection of that basic knowing. (All this is my personal understanding of Almaas's view on knowledge.)

The overall impression I get from reading your thoughts is something like "man, that sounds like hard work!" My main question would be: how is this whole idea working for you, in real life? Do you feel you are getting somewhere, employing these concentration or meditative methods you are talking about?

I personally find A. H. Almaas's teaching profoundly liberating on every level, so I go with that. Do you feel this view you are exposing is liberating too?
I'm sincerely curious about this.
Physicalists hold two fundamental beliefs:

1. The essence of Nature is Mathematics.
2. Consciousness is a product of the human brain.

But the two contraries are true:

1. The essence of Nature is Consciousness.
2. Mathematics is a product of the human brain.
Steve Petermann
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Re: Intuitive Idealism vs. Analytic Idealism (Part II): An alternative formulation of idealism

Post by Steve Petermann »

Adur Alkain wrote: Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:29 am I also take issue with the notion of spiritual evolution. Especially if it implies a sort of necessary progress towards some eschatological endpoint. I don't think the spirituality of the present moment is in any way "superior" to the spirituality of the past. Even plants and animals have a spiritual nature, in my view, and it's in no way "inferior" to ours. Also, I don't think there is a single path for spirituality. Plants and animals are still around after all, and so are so-called "primitive people". The notion of a spiritual evolution is a very ethnocentric one: it assumes that contemporary Western thought is at the forefront of this supposed evolutionary movement.

Anyway. I feel inspired by your thoughtful comments. I think you are on the path to true wisdom! :)
I agree that plants and animals (and everything else) have a spirituality of their own kind. Most certainly there are also extraterrestrials of many kinds who are part of the Divine Life as well. If everything is an aspect of the divine, how could it not be the case that everything has a spirituality? We may not be able to fully understand what that spirituality is like but everything participates in the divine telos and so they all have a divine transcendent depth they can embrace.

Also, thank you for your kind words.
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