Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 3:57 pm
To all concerned ... Perhaps I'm off base, but I'm still getting the feeling that not all commentary herein is being offered in good faith, in an attempt to come to terms with the ideas being proposed, but rather is being driven by whatever it is in the demeanour of the interlocutor that annoys and pisses one off, making the ideas at best a secondary consideration.
I am assuming this is not directed at me, and if not I appreciate you pointing this out.
But, as I keep saying, we should make every effort to relate these social ego dynamics back to the broader and more holistic forces at work. That is a critical aspect of breaking the old habit of fragmentary perceptions and creating a new habit of holistic cognition. It doesn't even really matter what the topic at issue is, bc it will provide much spiritual value to work through those steps regardless. It is all a path to developing Self-knowledge.
Whenever Western sprituality is invoked in the modern age these frictions arise. There is really a palpable disgust for it. As Cleric said in another thread, we don't even really desire for these spiritual dynamics to be true, even if they provide unfathomable meaning and hope to our lives. From my own personal experience, I can think of many times the Spirit was bearing fruit within me and I felt, "whoa this is a little scary, I don't know what will happen if I acknowledge this is occurring."
Of course I rationalize more in the way of, "I don't deserve this right now, or I need to be careful my personal fantasy isn't running amok with connections that don't actually exist, so let me 'take a break' and revisit it later." That is from someone who already accepted the Reality of the Spirit in the Christian sense for years now. After reflecting, though, I see this is precisely what the Western spiritual tradition warns about repeatedly, hence the importance of cultivating a certain devotional mood and faith along with the deep spiritual contemplation.
All of these things are also spoken of by Jungian depth psychology in terms of archetypal possession, projection, compensation, shadow work, etc. That is why Jung considered Christ the archetypal image of individuation i.e. a "union of the opposites" by making the collective subconscious conscious (apart from his own spiritual visions recounted in The Red Book). It is no coincidence Justin dislikes Jung and prefers Marx and Freud, at least based on what he has posted about them.