Or completely unreal? You choose.Actually the in-body-experience is so compelling because it is completely real. I'm not saying that the Big Bang is completely real but that our thinking about it certainly is. The way we imagine the outer world may be illusionary but our thoughts about it certainly are not. So the fact that we experience color, tone, warmth, touch, smell and so on are completely real. The fact that we experience ideas about all these sensations is also completely real. Even the meaning of the ideas is completely real. When we imagine a material world independent of consciousness, this in itself doesn't make it true but the meaning of the idea, which fills our consciousness is completely real. We live in the idea - it is what gives us a framework for understanding of our experience.
Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
Re: Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
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Re: Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
Indeed, Jim, and while we're on the subject - nor do products of the Judaic imagination like the angelic hierarchy.I agree a silicon chip doesn't meet either criteria no matter which you use.
Re: Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
Then what is real in your view?Jim Cross wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:43 pmOr completely unreal? You choose.Actually the in-body-experience is so compelling because it is completely real. I'm not saying that the Big Bang is completely real but that our thinking about it certainly is. The way we imagine the outer world may be illusionary but our thoughts about it certainly are not. So the fact that we experience color, tone, warmth, touch, smell and so on are completely real. The fact that we experience ideas about all these sensations is also completely real. Even the meaning of the ideas is completely real. When we imagine a material world independent of consciousness, this in itself doesn't make it true but the meaning of the idea, which fills our consciousness is completely real. We live in the idea - it is what gives us a framework for understanding of our experience.
Re: Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
Not this. Not that.Cleric K wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:07 pmThen what is real in your view?Jim Cross wrote: ↑Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:43 pmOr completely unreal? You choose.Actually the in-body-experience is so compelling because it is completely real. I'm not saying that the Big Bang is completely real but that our thinking about it certainly is. The way we imagine the outer world may be illusionary but our thoughts about it certainly are not. So the fact that we experience color, tone, warmth, touch, smell and so on are completely real. The fact that we experience ideas about all these sensations is also completely real. Even the meaning of the ideas is completely real. When we imagine a material world independent of consciousness, this in itself doesn't make it true but the meaning of the idea, which fills our consciousness is completely real. We live in the idea - it is what gives us a framework for understanding of our experience.
Re: Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
I'm not telling you anything.
Neti. Neti.
Re: Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
I suppose your remark is sarcastic but you mistake my seriousness. Or, perhaps you have some gaps in philosophical education?
I meant literally: "I'm not tell you anything" to your question offering an either/or for what I was telling you.
Re: Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
I surely have huge gaps, actually I don't have any philosophical education. I was genuinely interested in your view. From what you express I take it that real/unreal are just arbitrary, undecidable categories, something like that the Turing machine neither halts nor runs indefinitely. If that's the case - fine.
Just to make clear - my usage of 'real' was completely practical (or relative). Real, as in the difference between going through an imaginary wall and smashing one's head in a real one. I have nothing against the claim that from the perspective of the Absolute such distinction is meaningless.
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Re: Artificial metabolism and disscociation of MAL
BK is quite insistent that ipseity can only be associated with the appearance of metabolizing life forms when focused within the corporeal construct. I did once ask him in an email exchange how ipseity might appear if not focused within the corporeal construct, but he declined to speculate about the possibility of sustained ipseity absent the appearance of any corporeal life form—despite his tale about communicating with a disembodied Other written about in MTA, which at least indicates that he doesn't imaginatively rule it out altogether. Apparently a daemon, for example, would not qualify.Ben Iscatus wrote: ↑Mon Oct 11, 2021 9:25 pmBK has consistently said that there is no reason why dissociation could not be induced abiogenetically - as long as it is has metabolism. If it looks like a silicon chip, it is not dissociation, it has no metabolism, it cannot eat, drink, pee or poo and has no conscious inner life.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.