Consciousness, Civilization and Citizenship

[AshvinP]

There are no rules against using lethal force to eradicate people whose actions you perceive to be a threat to the 'ecosystem'? That's news to me and doesn't sound like being a responsible Citizen in any sense of that word.

Ashvin, my original question was really about concrete mice-human relation, but your interpretation/projection is also interesting. When I've talked with right-libertarians about their NAP (Non-Aggression-Principle), they say that NAP doesn't exclude self-defense. They also agree that pollution etc. threat to ecosystem which life depends from, is a NAP violation which justifies self-defense. This sounds fine in principle, practice gets very complicated as actions and their justifications refer to various interpretations of ecological house rules, where our knowledge is very incomplete already on the material and biological plane of causal loops, with more than enough devils in the details. Spiritual realms and evolution of consciousness on top of that... wide and deep epistemic humility leads to Gandhian justification of non-violence.

Over here, that way of thinking would mostly fall on the left. It's sometimes referred to as "eco-terrorism". We also find the same "self-defense" justification used by groups such as Antifa ("anti-fascists"). Such people cannot be argued with rationally. The idea that they have incomplete knowledge in an infinitely complex world is precisely the idea they have axiomatically (unconsciously) ruled out to take up the "cause". In my view, they are taking up Nature's "cause" to fill the void of meaning left by the "death of God".

They see themselves living in a world of 'things' rather than a world of 'images', where the latter have exteriors expressing an interior, but the former are only exteriors with no interior. From that perspective, it's easy for your soul and soul's of others to become just another 'thing' in the world of 'things', just as devoid of meaning as all the other 'things'. So what is needed is a complete paradigm shift which challenges the rationalist/materialist assumptions and restores interiority to the world. Mostly I believe that will come down to living by example and having faith there is a path to redemption for all.

And, under no circumstances would violent compulsion be justified with this view because it is both inhuman and counter-productive.

[Lou Gold]

Over here, that way of thinking would mostly fall on the left. It's sometimes referred to as "eco-terrorism". We also find the same "self-defense" justification used by groups such as Antifa ("anti-fascists"). Such people cannot be argued with rationally. The idea that they have incomplete knowledge in an infinitely complex world is precisely the idea they have axiomatically (unconsciously) ruled out to take up the "cause". In my view, they are taking up Nature's "cause" to fill the void of meaning left by the "death of God".

From a pov of planetary citizenship, I must ask, "what about this?" >>>

https://time.com/5873137/record-number- ... 0activists.

[AshvinP]

Over here, that way of thinking would mostly fall on the left. It's sometimes referred to as "eco-terrorism". We also find the same "self-defense" justification used by groups such as Antifa ("anti-fascists"). Such people cannot be argued with rationally. The idea that they have incomplete knowledge in an infinitely complex world is precisely the idea they have axiomatically (unconsciously) ruled out to take up the "cause". In my view, they are taking up Nature's "cause" to fill the void of meaning left by the "death of God".

From a pov of planetary citizenship, I must ask, "what about this?" >>>

https://time.com/5873137/record-number- ... 0activists.

That's an example of people murdering other people to protect their profits... I'm not sure how it relates to using "self defense" as a justification for violence.

[Lou Gold]

That's an example of people murdering other people to protect their profits... I'm not sure how it relates to using "self defense" as a justification for violence.

Granted that there's a clash of interests that can be complex at the local level, sadly, in current times in Brazil lots of indigenous and traditional land is being invaded with impunity.

https://news.mongabay.com/2021/01/brazi ... in-amazon/

[Soul_of_Shu]

China Wants to Invest in the Arctic. Why Doesn’t Canada?

[SanteriSatama]

Over here, that way of thinking would mostly fall on the left. It's sometimes referred to as "eco-terrorism". We also find the same "self-defense" justification used by groups such as Antifa ("anti-fascists"). Such people cannot be argued with rationally. The idea that they have incomplete knowledge in an infinitely complex world is precisely the idea they have axiomatically (unconsciously) ruled out to take up the "cause". In my view, they are taking up Nature's "cause" to fill the void of meaning left by the "death of God".

I was referring to American right-libertarians. So you go on the create a mental image of category that "can't be argued with rationally". And at the same time debunk rationalism as whole, because it's not subservient of your narrative of irrational, subservience to a dead god. A claim of spiritual monopoly, will to power in the horribly wrong way.

Mni Wiconi. Water is life. Do you put petroleum in the water you drink? Do you drink from a puddle with gasoline in it? If not, do you expect others to do what you refuse to do? Why deny even the possibility of reasoning, and condone use physical violence by the proxy state to poison water? Are you really of the mind that the nations that gathered at Standing Rock are unreasonable ecoterrorists? From which deep Jungian Shadow comes the guilt and demonizing, as well as the rationalizing merry-go-round?

Mni Wiconi. The nations gathered in spiritual prayer, and prayer is an actual change in conscience. Letting go of ego-control, letting go of hard wall of separation. .

They see themselves living in a world of 'things' rather than a world of 'images', where the latter have exteriors expressing an interior, but the former are only exteriors with no interior. From that perspective, it's easy for your soul and soul's of others to become just another 'thing' in the world of 'things', just as devoid of meaning as all the other 'things'. So what is needed is a complete paradigm shift which challenges the rationalist/materialist assumptions and restores interiority to the world. Mostly I believe that will come down to living by example and having faith there is a path to redemption for all.

They. They. They. You speak of them as if you knew them. There is no such "they". They are just an theoretical image you create and nurture in you, "they" are in you and you only. When you say "they", you refer to what you make into "just another thing in the world of things". Mind goes in circles when heart is sick. Healing of the heart is not far, not beyond reach in the there-after. You know the words. You know the promise: "Ask and you shall be given".

[AshvinP]

China Wants to Invest in the Arctic. Why Doesn’t Canada?

I have to say I agree with Jorjani's assessment of the CCP (not to be confused with the Chinese people, who are also victims of the CCP). They have shown nothing but the most foolhardy, imperialist and inhumane tendencies. They represent exactly the kind of civilization which refuses to be a global citizen under any circumstance.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Ashvin ... that post was to just make a subtle point about how this thread is trending ... I got countless more articles about Canadian political issues I could share here.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Due to having to delete the most recent comments for going beyond the leeway that we've granted to venture into political povs, and instead just becoming incendiary animosity, this thread has been locked.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Due to having to delete the most recent comments for going beyond the leeway that we've granted to venture into political povs, and instead just becoming incendiary animosity, this thread has been locked.

This thread has been unlocked, hopefully to focus on the original podcast that Lou shared, without once again degenerating into a two-way pissing match.