Jim Cross wrote: ↑Sat Apr 30, 2022 1:01 pm
But there are people who can make OBEs happen on demand. Or so they claim. There are also plenty of "psychics" who will do readings on demand.
If they do these things on demand, then why can't they be tested in a rigorous fashion?
Are all of these fakes?
Yeah, one such example, Tom Campbell claims to have done OBE experiments at the Monroe Institute, albeit decades ago, in which he and another guy (whose name escapes now) co-experienced actual consensus events nonlocally, beyond corporeal sensory involvement, apparently verified to the satisfaction of those involved, including Monroe himself. Whether or not he considers it possible to currently reproduce those experiments/results, or would make any attempt, in a way that could satisfy what you consider rigorous criteria, I've no idea. In any case, given that currently science has no good explanation for what 'reality' actually is, or what the 'in-body-experience' actually is, and is often starting from dubious assumptions about what it is—i.e. that a mind is actually
in a body, then must leave it, to traverse some actual distance—simply has no good grasp of how to verify such events, unless it is starting from a yet to be determined correct premise. For what it's worth, my sense is that an 'individuated' mind, for lack of a better descriptor, being essentially nonlocal, doesn't actually travel anywhere. So, as you say, what we think is occurring is not what is actually occurring, and we need to correct this faulty mindset to begin with, before much progress will be made in experimentally comprehending it.