Stranger wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 1:26 pm
Cleric K wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:41 am
On Jupiter, where reality will be much more Imaginative
All manifested reality of forms, feelings and ideas is Imaginative, because it is all imagined by Consciousness. It may be imagined by higher-order beings, in which case it will present itself as percepts for lower-order ones and feel like "real world". Or, it can be imagined by lower-level beings. But still, everything is Imagined, except for Consciousness itself, because Consciousness is THAT which Imagines everything else.
This does not mean that imagined forms are "unreal", they are absolutely real as imaginations. Imagine an apple or an idea of an apple, or experience a percept of an apple by "looking at an apple on the table" - it is absolutely real as idea-imagination or percept. But there is no some kind of "real apple" existing "objectively" apart from the idea, imagination or percept of an apple. However, 99.9999% of humans perceive the reality in exactly this way - they believe/imagine that there is a "real objectively existing apple out there" which they experience, and they also imagine themselves being the "experiencer" of that apple existing apart from the "apple". This is a totally erroneous way of perceiving reality, but this is where the subject-object duality resides and splits the reality into multiplicity of "objectively and independently existing" subjects and objects. When we perceive reality in such erroneous way, we live in a completely abstract layer of imagined reality where we imagine "things", objects and subjects existing in an "objective world out there" that actually nowhere exist in reality. It is a "fairy tale" that is entirely incoherent with how/what the World actually is. Humans are currently stuck in this incoherent perception of reality, and we cannot significantly progress in spiritual evolution until we resolve and transcend it.
I don't get it, Eugene (I kind of do, but still). Every time progress is made towards a more concrete understanding of Oneness, to escaping the repetitive circles of discussion which are frequently complained about, and moving to the novel living details of our potential evolutionary stream of becoming, you snap back to the recapitulations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(Byrne_book)
Byrne re-introduces a notion originally popularized by persons such as Madame Blavatsky and Norman Vincent Peale that thinking about certain things will make them appear in one's life. Byrne provides examples of historical persons who have allegedly achieved this. Byrne cites a three-step process: ask, believe, and receive.[9] This is based on a quotation from the Bible's Matthew 21:22: "And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive."
Byrne highlights the importance of gratitude and visualization in achieving one's desires, along with alleged examples. Later chapters describe how to improve one's prosperity, relationships, and health, with more general thoughts about the universe.
Focusing on the power and causal efficacy of thought can be a helpful first step, but it turns into something like the above if the intuition isn't further fleshed out with living details of the rhythmic gradient of our thought-life. It is as Cleric mentioned previously about all new-age people suddenly feeling they are qualified for something like Buddhahood. A similar thing is happening here with your comments.
You frequently say that nondual realization that All is willing-feeling-thinking with no 'separate me' is only a first step, but then when posts such as Cleric's advance to higher steps which flesh out the intuition and begin charting a course for a much more practical and deeper understanding and development, you take the opportunity provided by that post to
regress back to the first step, i.e. the broad-based experiential/conceptual understanding of Oneness which transcends the 'incoherent perception of reality'. You use that first step then to diminish the importance of the living details or even cast them as dualistic delusions because they speak of a polarity between pralaya and manvantara, Idea and Manifestation. You don't seem to realize that you are preserving the incoherent perception by refusing to investigate the living gradient along which Oneness can potentially manifest. You feel that smearing out this gradient into a generalized experience of nonduality, which is similar to Lorenzo's negative approach to 'what is reality', relieves us of the responsibility for working through the subject-object layers of manifestation, spiraling them into closer and closer unity within all facets and layers of of living experience.
Why does this continually happen?