LukeJTM wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2023 7:37 pm
AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:06 pm
Luke,
Indeed that question has been discussed extensively here, since many idealists are partial to Eastern mystical practice. At the most fundamental level, the question revolves around our relationship with the central "I"-being. The Christian esoteric stream, as indicated in the illustration, recognizes that "I"-being as the Christ (it's interesting to notice all the 'I AM' sayings in the Gospels). Our essential "I" is that thread which weaves through all the different realms, planes, substances, bodies, etc. and links the formless Divine to the formed creation, at all scales-levels. It is what always mediates between the poles of existence. Esoteric science recognizes that it is the "I" which, not only allows us to become aware of our spiritual existence through our lower vehicles, but also builds up those lower vehicles and participates in either their growth or decay all throughout life. So we aren't speaking of the "I" in the abstract philosophical terms of the modern age, but as a living spiritual force which animates all willing-feeling-thinking-perception, and is implicit in all physical and organic structures of the World. Even the mineral, plant, and animal kingdoms can be traced to their respective "I"-centers (often referred to as 'group-souls' or 'group-ego').
Thanks. But, I have to ask, what even is the "I" in abstract philosophy? There's too many confusing or even bizarre ideas going on in philosophy today, for me personally. As far as I can tell from just the facts of experience, "I" is just a given of experience. We all speak of ourselves as "I am" or "I". But it seems that ordinarily we humans identify the "I" with things like personality, or the physical body, or conditioned beliefs from other people, or society, and so on.
So, are you suggesting that the "I"-being is, essentially, the "I am" presence (going beyond the ordinary personality)? I have felt a sense of "I am" manifest here and there but not so consistently, which is because I am still figuring out how to make spiritual connection more fully. My understanding so far is that "I AM" can be brought into daily experience more gradually through keeping up with spiritual growth. Is that accurate?
Luke,
Yes, that is accurate. Actually Cleric just wrote a comment on the other thread which addresses the intuition of 'I AM' and how it expansd to encompass the World through the development of higher cognition. I will quote the relevant portion below.
Cleric wrote:So Intuition shouldn't be thought of as something which gives us consciousness only of the higher worlds. It is really the knowing essence of our existence. Probably the closest concept for those familiar with nondual philosophies would be 'awareness'. To be aware implies certain intuitive knowing. Of course, knowing not in conceptual sense. Maybe we can compare this with a kind of intuitive orientation. For example when you look at your room you don't have to think of anything in particular yet you feel 'oriented', you simply know what you're experiencing, it 'makes sense', you are not lost or confused about it.
As the quote above goes, this kind of knowing, for the normal man of today, is experienced only in respect to our "I". The "I" is like the coherent intuition which makes sense of the stream of existence.
Today we understand the world as far as everything that we experience fits in the intuition of our "I"-existence. After all, we can't really speak of understanding of anything outside our experience. Even if we imagine that we understand the universe from a bird eye view, all of this is still the very human philosophical experience of our own "I".
We speak of Intuitive cognition when we know the true nature of the world in the same way we know our "I".
Luke wrote:The biggest practical difference I see between this and the standard 'nondual' practice is that this working through the I-consciousness should manifest with the continual transformation of life itself, in and through our daily spiritual activity. All our dark instinctual and habitual tendencies are truthfully confronted, gradually enlightened, and effortfully attuned to the Divine Will. We are continually working to harmonize our intents with those of our higher Self, which serves the Cosmic organism. What Christ accomplished for humanity is not only limited to our personal sphere of spiritual capacity and experience, but extends to the gradual spiritualization of the Earth organism as a whole, in definite and concrete stages.
Wasn't the purification of the shadow elements of ourselves and attuning to Divine Will done in earlier epochs? I'm still just somewhat unsure about how what we can do now differs from older time periods and their traditions (which still happen today).
It is true that people today are still doing things like treating thinking as some obstacle preventing enlightenment. There are some gurus still teaching this old way of working with the inner world. I suppose that attitude may be useful for today if someone is just stuck in abstraction though. But I'm a bit confused because I see in some of the older traditions (which could be Hinduism, or Buddhism, or something like that), people had to purify themselves through spiritual practice too. But, I recall you did explain a bit about this on Discord before, people needed a guru or master to guide them back then, and that is totally correct because that is simply in the historical facts available. But now we don't need to rely that on as much because cognition is more lucid now, I think.
In very ancient times, we could say the nascent will was still so connected to the spirit worlds, via direct experience, that purification was not even needed. In fact, what was needed was a greater attachment to and interest in the Earthly sphere so that the individual will could fully incarnate. That is imaged in various mythologies as well, such as the Bhagavad Gita or the myth of Prometheus. As far as I know, the practice of purifying the will of mere Earthly attachments took root in ancient Greece, which is reflected in Aristotle's concept of catharsis through the dramatic arts. The ancient Hindu and Buddhist practices were less of a purification of the will, in contrast, and more of complete detachment from it. But for all these ancient cultures, the personal will was not yet fully incarnate. Every act of will was experienced as an expression of either the Gods themselves, or the various collective human groupings in which people were situated. In that sense, the possibility of individual freedom of will was lacking.
That is the real issue. When we try to translate those ancient practices to our modern context in a 1:1 relationship, we are simply ignoring the evolution of spiritual activity which has taken place. The detaching practice of the ancient East, in the modern evolutionary context, is the equivalent of washing our hands of everything we have embedded into the World through all of our previous incarnations. We are expressing a desire to save ourselves and leave the rest of the World behind to clean up our mess. And that would be somewhat reasonable (albeit amoral) if we had not received something of profound importance at the 'turning point in time', i.e. the Christ events. At that time, the "I" of God himself united with the physical body of man and the physical Earth, providing the impulse necessary for us to gradually spiritualize those bodies by compensating for all our Karma over the course of the ages to come, thereby redeeming the entire Earth evolution (including all the lower kingdoms).
Related to that, I think it is common for people to mistake 'higher cognition' and 'spiritual science' for something cold and detached, because that is the only sort of thinking we are used to in the modern era. Then they wonder why it is so different from the nondual wisdom which has been around for ages. If it was merely a path to mystical visions of spiritual beings, such as were also available in the past, and expanded head-knowledge about Cosmic evolution, then it would simply lack the force to inspire humanity to the new redemptive heights necessary for our continued evolution. But it's much more than that. At its core, it is preparation for us to become receptive to the ongoing sacrificial deeds of the Christ-being who makes it possible for humanity to take hold of its destiny and redeem the Earth's evolution in complete freedom, through its fully conscious "I"-activity. In fact, today (ascension day) is a great time to remember that.
Steiner wrote:The sun was the dwelling place of the Christ up to the time of the Mystery of Golgotha. The ether body of man in that it strives towards the sun strives therefore towards the Christ. Now, call up before you the picture of the Ascension: Before the eyes of the Disciples the Christ rises heavenwards. This means that before the eyes of the Disciples' souls was conjured forth the vision of how the etheric nature of mankind in its upward striving unites itself with the power, with the Impulse of Christ. Therefore, the Disciples saw how at the time of the Mystery of Golgotha man was faced with the danger of seeing his ether body attracted cloud-wards — towards the sun, but also how the Christ held that which then strove heavenwards, together. This picture has to be understood aright. It is really a warning. The Christ was already united with the earth, but He belongs to those forces in man which actually strive towards the sun, which desire for ever to leave the earth. It is the Christ Who holds men firmly to the earth.
The Christ came down from spiritual heights, and in the man Jesus of Nazareth united Himself with humanity; He passed through the Mystery of Golgotha, and has associated His evolution with the evolution of the earth. It was a deed which was done for the whole of humanity. Try to grasp this fact correctly: — The Mystery of Golgotha was accomplished for humanity. Clairvoyant vision must ever behold how the etheric forces of humanity that constantly seek to separate from the earth are united with the Christ; and how the Christ is able to hold them back for earthly evolution. This is of great importance to humanity.
Luke wrote:Anway, what I am unsure is where this trying to transcend Thinking into mystical states comes from. Clearly, for today's human, it can come from laziness, as you point out, but what about in older days where abstract and intellect was not so developed/available to humans? Do you have understanding in that context? Why is this way of practicing still happening today when we can understand more lucidly? Is it because all the different cultures of the world are flowing in different rhythms of evolution, or something to do with that? I am just trying to understand the bigger picture.
That is a great observation. We often remark here how our spatial conciousness gives us the capacity to perceive many varied evolving Time-rhythms simultaneously, for ex. the kingdoms of Nature. That also applies to the various spheres of culture, which are already more temporal than spatial. We can only understand why these groupings exist in light of the differentiated time-rhythmic streams of evolution. These streams are the outer expression of concrete spiritual beings and their activity, which serve definite intents in the progression (or, in some cases, attempted retrogression) of Earth's evolution, which as we saw above, is bound up completely with humanity's evolution.
Why certain streams have unlawfully infilitrated our modern context in a maladaptive way is a complex question. But, at a broad level, we can certainly say it has to do with our moral failings. Nowhere is that more evident in our addiction to abstract thinking, which is exactly what maintains when the only spiritual avenues pursued are out of sync with our modern constitution. The ancients presented their crops and animals to the divine Universe to show their gratitude for what the latter inspired and imagined through them. They gave up possessions of tremendous value as a display of their thanksgiving. Later, they created epics such as the Iliad and the Odyssey from the inspirations of their Muse. Even as late as the Middle Ages, thinking was primarily a means of professing gratitude and devotion towards the created order, as it spent hours upon hours in quiet contemplation of the latter. Now, modern humans can only be troubled to present the Universe with speculative and repetitive opinions, models, and theories after consuming the latter’s inspirations. Not only has the practice of mere outward sacrifices continued, but the sacrifices have drastically lowered in value. They are generated about as fast as our thoughts can race and our fingers can type. More recently, with the arrival of Chat GPT, even that minimal effort has started evaporating. Most people who work in a business setting would have already received numerous solicitations on how the GPT algorithm can make their jobs ‘easier’, which of course fail to mention how it can also make their thinking souls devoid of life.