Water flows down stream, rains upstream. Metaphysical positions can be derived and denied also from ethical axioms. It's often a matter of character whether we consider the practical or the theoretical aspect more significant.AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:16 pm I would say the most significant difference is what BK makes a compelling case for in his new book, which is that Jung was a metaphysical idealist for all intents and purposes. All kinds of implications for the psychic possibilities of humanity flow downstream from that.
Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
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Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
There is plenty practical about metaphysical positions. They provide the context for assessing our experience of states such as 'anxiety', sometimes suggesting questions we never would have otherwise thought of asking. As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"? A materialist scarcely knows to even ask that question, let alone provide a reasonably convincing answer.SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:26 pmWater flows down stream, rains upstream. Metaphysical positions can be derived and denied also from ethical axioms. It's often a matter of character whether we consider the practical or the theoretical aspect more significant.AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:16 pm I would say the most significant difference is what BK makes a compelling case for in his new book, which is that Jung was a metaphysical idealist for all intents and purposes. All kinds of implications for the psychic possibilities of humanity flow downstream from that.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:37 pmThere is plenty practical about metaphysical positions. They provide the context for assessing our experience of states such as 'anxiety', sometimes suggesting questions we never would have otherwise thought of asking. As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"? A materialist scarcely knows to even ask that question, let alone provide a reasonably convincing answer.SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:26 pmWater flows down stream, rains upstream. Metaphysical positions can be derived and denied also from ethical axioms. It's often a matter of character whether we consider the practical or the theoretical aspect more significant.AshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:16 pm I would say the most significant difference is what BK makes a compelling case for in his new book, which is that Jung was a metaphysical idealist for all intents and purposes. All kinds of implications for the psychic possibilities of humanity flow downstream from that.
And GM compassionately inquires, not about why we are anxious but instead about why the pain about which we are justifiably anxious?As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"?
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Exactly, and I would find it impractical to respond, "the Universe is a painful place and that's just the way it is, but don't worry...your pain and anxiety will end when you die". That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.Lou Gold wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:42 pmAshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:37 pmThere is plenty practical about metaphysical positions. They provide the context for assessing our experience of states such as 'anxiety', sometimes suggesting questions we never would have otherwise thought of asking. As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"? A materialist scarcely knows to even ask that question, let alone provide a reasonably convincing answer.SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 5:26 pm
Water flows down stream, rains upstream. Metaphysical positions can be derived and denied also from ethical axioms. It's often a matter of character whether we consider the practical or the theoretical aspect more significant.And GM compassionately inquires, not about why we are anxious but instead about why the pain about which we are justifiably anxious?As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"?
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:07 amExactly, and I would find it impractical to respond, "the Universe is a painful place and that's just the way it is, but don't worry...your pain and anxiety will end when you die". That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.Lou Gold wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 10:42 pmAshvinP wrote: ↑Wed Mar 03, 2021 6:37 pm
There is plenty practical about metaphysical positions. They provide the context for assessing our experience of states such as 'anxiety', sometimes suggesting questions we never would have otherwise thought of asking. As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"? A materialist scarcely knows to even ask that question, let alone provide a reasonably convincing answer.And GM compassionately inquires, not about why we are anxious but instead about why the pain about which we are justifiably anxious?As JP often remarks, the question is not "why are we anxious animals?", but rather, "how is it that we are not anxious all the time"?
Please elaborate. I don't follow your drift. As a lawyer, would you say that when seeing that a pain is caused by an injustice?That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
I don't really follow your drift either. I was just continuing the topic of whether theoretical metaphysical issues can also have practical benefits in our lives. When a person is in chronic pain, depression, anxiety, etc., I would say most definitely.Lou Gold wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:19 amPlease elaborate. I don't follow your drift. As a lawyer, would you say that when seeing that a pain is caused by an injustice?That's a good example of where the metaphysical can become very practical.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Oh, yes! Metaphysics can be practical and helpful. I was adding that identifying and doing something about the pain that is rationally causing anxiety is equally important.AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:40 amI don't really follow your drift either. I was just continuing the topic of whether theoretical metaphysical issues can also have practical benefits in our lives. When a person is in chronic pain, depression, anxiety, etc., I would say most definitely.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
- Soul_of_Shu
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Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Yet another recent conversation between Tim Ferriss and JP may also be of pertinent interest here. In this one covering rules for life, psychedelics, the Bible, and much more, at around the 40 minute mark they get into the idea of psychedelic-induced ontological shock, wherein the fundamental nature of reality comes into question ...
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
Nice. I love that phrase, "ontological shock". And this quote - "everyone is an unconscious proponent of some dead philosopher". So true. It sounds like Nietzsche, but JP said it may be Whitehead.Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:28 pm Yet another recent conversation between Tim Ferriss and JP may also be of pertinent interest here. In this one covering rules for life, psychedelics, the Bible, and much more, at around the 40 minute mark they get into the idea of psychedelic-induced ontological shock, wherein the fundamental nature of reality comes into question ..
Also, it looks like BK is game for a discussion with Pageau, and Mark Vernon may be able to mix it up in there too.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
- Soul_of_Shu
- Posts: 2023
- Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:48 pm
- Contact:
Re: Christianity and Metaphysics - Jordan Peterson interviews Jonathan Pageau
That conversation with Pageau would be most welcome, and down the road perhaps others with Vervaeke, Vernon, Jordan Hall, the Thoughts on Thinking channel, and the list goes on, where we would get BK imaginatively engaging in the same way as he did with his 'Inception Dialogues' in the early days of his YT channel, going beyond a strict focus on explaining analytical idealism.
Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.