Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

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AshvinP
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Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

Post by AshvinP »

Barfield explores the phenomenon of modern mental illness, such as Schizophrenia, and how it reveals a fundamental alienation of the 'self' from the surrounding world and from the true Self in all of human society, with the Schizophrenics being the ones who are most aware of the alienation. Moderns experience this alienation as varying forms and degrees of insanity, while our ancestors experienced it as "sin". The former feels it is something that is happening to them, while the latter felt it was something they were actively involved in and, therefore, needed to take responsibility for.
History, Guilt and Habit - Chapter 2 - Modern Idolatry (excerpts)

There are two things that are noticeable about the modern psychology... the first is that the root, the subconscious root, of schizophrenia is increasingly being traced to the experience of what I will for the moment call "cut-offness". The second is that the experience is increasingly being regarded, not as one that is peculiar to the patient, but in a greater or less degree as one that is the predicament of humanity, or certainly Western humanity, as a whole.
...
The clinically schizoid are simply the ones who are becoming most sharply aware of it. Thus, they speak of the personality, or the self, as being isolated, encapsulated, excluded, estranged, alienated. There are many different ways of putting it. But what the self of each of us feels isolated from, cut off from, by its encapsulation in the nakedly physical reality presented to it by the common sense of contemporary culture, is precisely its own existential source [the 'true Self'].

Sin and Madness, by Dr. Shirley Sugerman... argues, convincingly to my mind, that what is now conceived and felt as insanity can only be properly understood as the evolutionary metamorphosis of what was formerly conceived and felt as sin.
...
But can there by sin without guilt? Paul Ricouer, in his book The Symbolism of Evil, observes, rightly I think, that a feeling of guilt is the fundamental experience of sin. If so, how can this contemporary madness, from which there is evidence that we all suffer, but about which we certainly do not feel guilty, have anything to do with sin? Perhaps because, although we do not feel guilty about the sin, we do feel guilty because of it.
...
There is atmosphere of guilt. Take for instance the issue of racialism, the relation between the advanced and the so-called "backward nations", or between white and colored... what was until recently called "the white man's burden" was a burden of responsibility, not of guilt.
...
People seem almost to go out of their way to find things to feel guilty about, or to encourage others to feel guilty about. I can think of two reasons in particular why it is bad... such confused feelings of guilt tend to beget paralysis rather than energy... when they do not beget paralysis, feelings of guilt tend to turn rather easily into feelings of hatred and contempt. We may feel a bit guilty ourselves, but we are very sure that a whole lot of other people are much more guilty, and probably ought to be destroyed.
...
And just this darker side to the experience of guilt seems to be even more evident when the experience is collective rather than when it is the individual. 'All are responsible for all', said Alyosha in The Brothers Karamazov. A noble, a truly human sentiment - perhaps the only absolutely human sentiment there is... It is the irritation of guilt that turns it into the impulse to compel, into a determination to use every kind of violence, every device of indoctrination, in order to enforce on all a systematic equality that must entail a mechanical and inhuman uniformity.
I would add that Jung also explores this aspect of Schizophrenia in The Psychogenesis of Mental Disease:
The question of psychogenesis in mental diseases other than the neuroses, which are now generally considered psychic in origin, is discussed, and the psychic etiology of schizophrenia is affirmed. Mental processes are products of the psyche, and that same psyche produces delusions and hallucinations when it is out of balance. In turn, schizophrenia is considered as having a psychology of its own. But whereas the healthy person’s ego is the subject of his experiences, the schizophrenic’s ego is only one of the subjects. In schizophrenia, the normal subject has split into a plurality of autonomous complexes, at odds with one another and with reality, bringing about a disintegration of the personality.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
SanteriSatama
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

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In Han’s study, the average TPJ activity levels of people from the traditionally interdependent country looked closer to those of schizophrenic patients. Other studies, including Chiyoko Kubayashi Frank at the School of Psychology at Fielding Graduate University in Santa Barbara, have theorized that diminished activity in the TPJ area in Japanese adults and children during theory of mind tasks “might represent the demoted sense of self-other distinction in the Japanese culture.”12 This shows up in how both populations perceive the world differently: People from collectivistic countries are more likely to believe in God,13 and to attend to context in images, while people from individualistic countries are likely to ignore context in favor of the image’s primary focus.14 This implies schizophrenics are less likely to be doubted or stigmatized for their visions in collectivistic cultures, and thus, they are less likely to feel what Schutt calls “socially-generated stress”—which, he notes, “has biological effects that can exacerbate symptoms of mental illness.”

(...)

When Malidoma first met Frank one evening over dinner in Jamaica, he recognized the man’s likeness to himself instantly. “The connection we had was immediately clear,” he says. As soon as schizophrenic met shaman, the latter shook his head and clasped Frank’s hands as if they’d known each other for years. He told Dick that Frank was “like a colleague!” Malidoma believes that Frank is a U.S. version of a titiyulo; in fact, there is a version of a titiyulo in pretty much every culture, he says. He also believes that one cannot choose to become a titiyulo: It happens to you. “Every shaman started with a crisis similar to those here who are called schizophrenic, psychotic. Shamanism or titiyulo journeys begin with a breakdown of the psyche,” he says. “One day they’re fine, normal, like everyone else. The next day they’re acting really weird and dangerously toward themselves and the village”—seeing and hearing things that aren’t there, acting paranoid, shouting.

When this happens, the Dagara people begin a collective effort to heal the broken-down person; one marked by loud rituals involving dancing and cheering and with an underlying current of celebration. Malidoma remembers watching his sister go through it. “My sister was screaming into the night,” he says, “but people were playing around her.” Usually, the uncontrollable breakdowns last about eight months, after which effectively new people emerge. “You have to go through this radical initiation where you can become the larger than life person the community needs for their own benefit, you know?” If the broken-down person does not have a community around him or her, Malidoma says, he or she may fail to heal. He believes this is what happened to Frank.
https://nautil.us/issue/40/learning/a-m ... other-name
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AshvinP
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

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That's very interesting. The old habits of mind must be broken down to make room for new habits of mind. Either that will happen happen unconsciously and uncontrollably (mental illness), in which case I am sure it helps tremendously to have some sort of surrounding community which empathizes (as opposed to "diagnoses and treats"), or ideally it would happen more consciously through spiritual training and practice, the latter being what people like Barfield and Jung wanted to revitalize in Western cultures where, already back when they were writing, the empathic community was severely lacking.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
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Lou Gold
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

Post by Lou Gold »

Santeri,

Similar story when Ramana Maharshi showed up at Arunachala Hill and fell helpless into an ecstatic state where he might have died except for the care of a supportive culture. Interestingly, the Dagara people (according to Malidoma) refer to people in strong breaks as "having gone private" and, as you point out above, that's an understood part of the process. I can see a partial equivalence in depth-psychology minus the community of understanding, which becomes a continuing problematic of integrating with the larger culture. The trope say, "It takes a village to raise a child." Much the same can be said for a shaman and for genuine healing.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
SanteriSatama
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

Post by SanteriSatama »

Lou Gold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:38 am Santeri,

Similar story when Ramana Maharshi showed up at Arunachala Hill and fell helpless into an ecstatic state where he might have died except for the care of a supportive culture. Interestingly, the Dagara people (according to Malidoma) refer to people in strong breaks as "having gone private" and, as you point out above, that's an understood part of the process. I can see a partial equivalence in depth-psychology minus the community of understanding, which becomes a continuing problematic of integrating with the larger culture. The trope say, "It takes a village to raise a child." Much the same can be said for a shaman and for genuine healing.
That is the traditional form of shamanhood. A community of people nurtures and heals and thus captures a shaman disease for their benefit. On the other hand, not all bodies want to be or are able to be thus captured and tamed. The fierce, untamable and wild aspect is not necessarily in need of healing, but can easily be considered anti-social by the society.

The communal need and desire to nurture and capture shamans is also not without it's violent side. It's a sacrifice of one for the benefit of many. A collective Peter Pan syndrome.

Our social evolution is largely a process of trial and error driven by that deep tension.
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Lou Gold
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

Post by Lou Gold »

The communal need and desire to nurture and capture shamans is also not without it's violent side. It's a sacrifice of one for the benefit of many. A collective Peter Pan syndrome.

Our social evolution is largely a process of trial and error driven by that deep tension.
Sure! Tension and harmony. Self and other. Individual and collective. Trial and error. Looking for a way to walk on the slippery earth, one finds there's a season for all under heaven. The difference between the 'Colonial' and the 'Shamanic' ways is that the former seeks to impose a right (fundamental, true) way for all and the latter seeks to cut through the clutter. When the Shaman participates in the culture he or she, like Ramana did, makes 'allowances'.
Be calm - Be clear - See the faults - See the suffering - Give your love
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Lou Gold
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

Post by Lou Gold »

A community of people nurtures and heals and thus captures a shaman disease for their benefit. On the other hand, not all bodies want to be or are able to be thus captured and tamed. The fierce, untamable and wild aspect is not necessarily in need of healing, but can easily be considered anti-social by the society.
I agree.
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AshvinP
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

Post by AshvinP »

Lou Gold wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:46 am
A community of people nurtures and heals and thus captures a shaman disease for their benefit. On the other hand, not all bodies want to be or are able to be thus captured and tamed. The fierce, untamable and wild aspect is not necessarily in need of healing, but can easily be considered anti-social by the society.
I agree.
How can you have a community if some members remain "fierce, untamable and wild"? Extreme diversity of values and memories leads to disintegration. Initiation/Integration is precisely the 'taming' operation. It is walking softly while carrying a big stick, becoming the blessed meek. Mental illness needs to be empathically cured, sin needs to be redeemed.
"A secret law contrives,
To give time symmetry:
There is, within our lives,
An exact mystery."
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

Post by Soul_of_Shu »

It does sometimes seem to get quite nebulous when figuring out the difference between 'psychosis' (as defined by DSM 5) and so-called 'spiritual awakening.'

Here out of instinct or grace we seek
soulmates in these galleries of hieroglyph and glass,
where mutual longings and sufferings of love
are laid bare in transfigured exhibition of our hearts,
we who crave deep secrets and mysteries,
as elusive as the avatars of our dreams.
SanteriSatama
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Re: Schizophrenia, Sin and the Self (Owen Barfield)

Post by SanteriSatama »

AshvinP wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 3:53 pm How can you have a community if some members remain "fierce, untamable and wild"?
Such people are not necessarily members of a community, but outsiders.
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