Ben Iscatus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 9:51 pm Thank you Ash for your insights.
Channelers often claim to be spiritually oriented and caring. But as outsiders, we can’t know how enlightened they really are or how much they cultivate their spiritual abilities. This is why I would prefer to judge by results: if I hear output that is worthwhile (detailed, specific, helpful), I would not speak dismissively of them.
Ben,
Do you agree that, if there are higher intelligences who actually dialogue with humans through channeling or any other means, then we must necessarily conceive of human development as following a telos, a curvature of intent-driven development whose source cannot be found in the sensory realm?
Now what if that telos involves what all ancient spirituality has spoken of as theosis, reintegration with the Divine, a reversal of the Fall, a return to one's true nature, etc.? In other words, the telos is what projects into our sensory realm as the process of evolution towards more and more sentient and creative and moral forms of life.
The only point of mentioning this is to bring attention to the possibility that what you are asking for - tailor-made output in 'natural language' that is capable of convincing even the most skeptical of skeptics - could be in direct opposition to the telos. We have to consider the possibility that what helps us fulfill the telos is exactly the opposite of what we are asking for in the way of 'proof' (which we only started demanding within a few hundred year spectrum out of millions of years of evolution). And this isn't a complete what IF, because as mentioned, it is also supported by every ancient spiritual tradition that integrates an evolutionary outlook of Earthly humanity back to the Divine.
In that scenario, we are sort of like children who have been told by their parents that they need to become independent, move out of the house, start working and earn their own money. Then the child says to the parents, "OK sure, I'll do that as soon as you go find me an apartment, furnish it, get me a job, and put enough money into my bank account to live for a few decades." The child wants to get everything new through its old ways of dependent being, instead of sacrificing the old and growing into the new. This is the issue we see all too often in spiritual pursuits, and I used to think channeled messages delivered to us on a platter were the low hanging fruit. Now apparently even they require too much effort.