KASTRUP AND SHELDRAKE ON THE COSMIC MIND

[Güney27]

Seems also true when we divide into "ego" and "not ego." In spiritual work we must guard against developing an anti-ego ego. I try to focus on the fulcrum rather than the swings. I like the notion of Francis of Assisi that the perfect joy is to have a peaceful heart no matter how the swinging goes.

Right, the "ego" vs "anti-ego" is a vicious cycle of ego pretending to try to get rid of itself. The only way to break through this merry-go-around is to experientially realize the reality of the spiritual activity of the egoless Aware-Thinking-Feeling (ATF) as the source behind the world of our thoughts, feelings and perceptions. The ATF is the same as Christ-consciousness, Buddha nature, Sat-Chit-Ananda, Shiva, Yahwe, Allah - these are just different pointers to the same Reality in different traditions (even though they usually are grossly misunderstood, personified and externalized in the exoteric forms of these traditions).

The reason Francis of Assisi had a peaceful heart was because his heart was rooted in Christ so he could see through the swings by seeing the reality through Christ's eyes.

“The eye through which I see God is the same eye through which God sees me; my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing, one love.”
― Meister Eckhart

Do you think that Buddha or Allah are all different names for the same being or 'thing' ?

[Stranger]

Naturally there's not much of a concrete, actual *way* in recommending to "experientially realize the reality of the spiritual activity of the egoless Aware-Thinking-Feeling (ATF) as the source behind the world of our thoughts, feelings and perceptions".

So how do you go from this statement, or declaration, to a real way, one that can really be walked, to make progress every day? What are your concrete experiential methods?

Federica, you are right, this will remain a wishful intellectual thinking until we find a real way to recognize the presence of AWF in our direct experience, and once that happens, make this direct recognition stable in the everyday life. We use philosophy to dismantle erroneous views and clear the way for seeing the reality of WTF obstructed by erroneous views. But once that housecleaning work is done, the rest is continuous spiritual practice that just needs to be done, not a philosophy anymore that is subject to discussions (which explains my long absences from forums).

[Stranger]

Do you think that Buddha or Allah are all different names for the same being or 'thing' ?

Yes, except for that it's not a "thing" . Not if you listen to Islamic or Buddhist fundamentalists of course, but if you study and practice esoteric versions of Buddhism and Islam such as Dzogchen and Sufism, then you will find that they are referring to the same Reality. Same applies to esoteric Christianity as per Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite

[Federica]

Naturally there's not much of a concrete, actual *way* in recommending to "experientially realize the reality of the spiritual activity of the egoless Aware-Thinking-Feeling (ATF) as the source behind the world of our thoughts, feelings and perceptions".

So how do you go from this statement, or declaration, to a real way, one that can really be walked, to make progress every day? What are your concrete experiential methods?

Federica, you are right, this will remain a wishful intellectual thinking until we find a real way to recognize the presence of AWF in our direct experience, and once that happens, make this direct recognition stable in the everyday life. We use philosophy to dismantle erroneous views and clear the way for seeing the reality of WTF obstructed by erroneous views. But once that housecleaning work is done, the rest is continuous spiritual practice that just needs to be done, not a philosophy anymore that is subject to discussions (which explains my long absences from forums).

I think it's dangerous to conceive of philosophy as a tool - you are again conceiving your thinking activity as a tool, operated from outside the tool, but never mind. My question was: what are the steps of continuous spiritual practice according to you?

[lorenzop]

Naturally there's not much of a concrete, actual *way* in recommending to "experientially realize the reality of the spiritual activity of the egoless Aware-Thinking-Feeling (ATF) as the source behind the world of our thoughts, feelings and perceptions".

So how do you go from this statement, or declaration, to a real way, one that can really be walked, to make progress every day? What are your concrete experiential methods?

Anyone can inspect their own experience and locate a sense of 'being present, being aware', a sense of 'being present, being aware' that underlies all thinking, sensations, emotions, perceptions, etc. That's it, 'being present, being aware', that's our true nature. We can make it as complicated as we wish, we can wrap in up in a specific tradition or religion, but it's a simple thing.
Also, if we inspect our experience, we can find this 'being present, being aware' can be overshadowed or lost during experience; perceiving, dreaming, thinking and even sleeping. The 'goal' is to not lose or have this sense of 'being present, being aware' overshadowed or lost during experience.
How?
It doesn't do any good to banish or push away experiences. It doesn't accomplish anything to smash or negate the ego. What we do is: We bring in a second element, we infuse more 'being present, being aware'. This does not require belief, intellectual prowess or initiation.
More Being.
We know when we are making progress because there is more a sense of 'being present, being aware', and less overshadowing of Being.

[Stranger]

I think it's dangerous to conceive of philosophy as a tool - you are again conceiving your thinking activity as a tool, operated from outside the tool, but never mind.

Philosophy is a specific way of thinking activity, and there are other ways. When we become skillful in exercising our thinking abilities, we know which way of thinking is appropriate for specific circumstances.

My question was: what are the steps of continuous spiritual practice according to you?

It's a whole different discussion, and there is not a single universal "right" path of steps, a but a large variety of them depending on individual level of development and individual predispositions and circumstances. The esoteric spiritual traditions are rich with these practical methods, what we need to do is to study and apply them in practice. Some of these practices are more efficient and expedient, and some are less efficient. The way I do it is to try them and see how they practically work in my own circumstances.

You can do it in a simple and straightforward way as Lorenzo described above, or add to it other methods (devotional, meditative, prayer, Steiner's developmental exercises, visualizations etc) to reinforce the practice and bring more fuel to it. The problem is that our habitual rudimentary thinking patterns (egoic, dualistic, mundane) over a long period of doing them and training in them became very resilient and persistent to such an extent that we became enslaved to them. Whatever practice we use, it needs to be as resilient and consistent as these patterns to make it work, otherwise they will keep obscuring the realization of ATW (our true nature) and obstructing our spiritual development.

[lorenzop]

I think it's dangerous to conceive of philosophy as a tool - you are again conceiving your thinking activity as a tool, operated from outside the tool, but never mind.

Philosophy is a specific way of thinking activity, and there are other ways. When we become skillful in exercising our thinking abilities, we know which way of thinking is appropriate for specific circumstances.

My question was: what are the steps of continuous spiritual practice according to you?

It's a whole different discussion, and there is not a single universal "right" path of steps, a but a large variety of them depending on individual level of development and individual predispositions and circumstances. The esoteric spiritual traditions are rich with these practical methods, what we need to do is to study and apply them in practice. Some of these practices are more efficient and expedient, and some are less efficient. The way I do it is to try them and see how they practically work in my own circumstances.

You can do it in a simple and straightforward way as Lorenzo described above, or add to it other methods (devotional, meditative, prayer, Steiner's developmental exercises, visualizations etc) to reinforce the practice and bring more fuel to it.

Correct, my post above wasn't regarding method(s), but more of the simplicity of what is required. Rupert Spira has his 'direct method', and there are techniques of meditation. My work offered a day of Mindfulness Meditation training - I asked the instructor what one should do if left with a sense of being present and awareness . . . the answer was to come back to the breath. So, Mindfulness Mediation would not necessarily be a technique for this. Not all meditation techniques are the same, some are more contemplative or concentration, and not for letting the mind find its true nature.

[Stranger]

Correct, my post above wasn't regarding method(s), but more of the simplicity of what is required. Rupert Spira has his 'direct method', and there are techniques of meditation. My work offered a day of Mindfulness Meditation training - I asked the instructor what one should do if left with a sense of being present and awareness . . . the answer was to come back to the breath. So, Mindfulness Mediation would not necessarily be a technique for this. Not all meditation techniques are the same, some are more contemplative or concentration, and not for letting the mind find its true nature.

Yeah, I agree. You know I'm a big fan of Rupert If the "direct method" alone works for you without any reinforcements then go for it. Often people use secondary practices to reinforce the "direct method" and still find them useful (me included). It depends on the individual circumstances.

My only reservation towards Rupert's method is that he is too focused on the "Presence-Awareness" aspect of ATW disregarding its active aspects of Thinking and Willing. He does the right thing of integrating the Awareness with the world of forms and realizing the inseparability of them. But how is the world of forms created in the first place? It's by Thinking and Willing inseparable form Awareness, which Rupert kind of disregards.

As opposed to Rupert's method, for example, the Buddhist practice embraces all of these aspects: Presence (Dharmakaya), Awareness (Sambhogakaya) and Thinking-Willing (Nirmanakaya) together with the world of forms that it creates. Similarly, the Anthroposophical approach involves the development of higher levels of Thinking and Willing, although my reservation to the Anthroposophical method is that it disregards (or at least deemphasizes) the Presence-Awareness aspects. This is why I still stick with the Buddhist practice as being the most integrating and rich in practical methods, but I'm not trying to convince anyone that they should do the same. Again, it all depends on the individual circumstances.

[Federica]

I'm glad you are exploring "pictorial thinking." I love the art medium called "encaustics", which involves hot flowing wax. Mostly it's used in a conventionally painterly way. I used to use it to explore what I did not have words for and its evolving into forms I recognized. It's still hard to give words to it all. Perhaps you can see the process in this old painting of mine, which I recently turned into a monochrome titled "Liquid Light"?

Pictorial thinking means creating future pictures to signal our intention to actively and consciously take part in the cosmic interconnected experiential flow with our intentions. Painting techniques could be a means to crystallize a snapshot of that activity in the sensory spectrum, but if the painting does not stem from some level of self-centered awareness of the interconnectedness, the only thing it would crystallize is, at best, the blind invocation of a wondering and wandering soul, and at worse a closed-circle sensory-sensual escape.

[AshvinP]

As opposed to Rupert's method, for example, the Buddhist practice embraces all of these aspects: Presence (Dharmakaya), Awareness (Sambhogakaya) and Thinking-Willing (Nirmanakaya) together with the world of forms that it creates. Similarly, the Anthroposophical approach involves the development of higher levels of Thinking and Willing, although my reservation to the Anthroposophical method is that it disregards the Presence-Awareness aspects. This is why I still stick with the Buddhist practice as being the most integrating and rich in practical methods, but I'm not trying to convince anyone that they should do the same. Again, it all depends on the individual circumstances.

I don't think it will be of much use to abstractly try and explain why "Thinking and Willing" in Anthroposophical terms is not at all what people imagine it to be, i.e. the intellectual voice, mental picturing, and daily intents. These are only the shadows or outermost circumference of Thinking-Willing which is World-Sustaining and -Creating activity. But I don't want to get into some abstract debate about whether an additional element is needed to reach the 'true ground' of Awareness.

Let me put it this way. If we are walking around the house, thinking about a million things, and stub our toe on some object, you would say this reflects a lack of presence-awareness, right? When navigating the sensory world, we often have an instinctive presence-awareness that keeps us from bumping into things all the time. We don't need to think intellectually about every single sensation we encounter to avoid such painful encounters, rather we have learned it as children through a sort of instinctive wisdom. The latter maintains a certain level of presence-awareness in the sensory world without the intellect intervening.

Would you agree and say that we can further advance to cognitively experience the instinctive wisdom that maintains this presence-awareness, which we unconsciously learned as children? If so, then could such an experience do anything but further enrich and enhance our presence-awareness? What is the goal of being present-aware, in any case? Is it simply a matter of inner peace and satisfaction, or something of much more significance for human and Earthly destiny?