Federica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 21, 2025 7:22 pmAshvinP wrote: ↑Fri Nov 21, 2025 4:02 pmFederica wrote: ↑Fri Nov 21, 2025 3:47 pm Nobody ever said that it's forbidden to begin early with concentration exercises, and that practical thinking is the imperative prologue to it. Yet, as Steiner explicitly recommends, a practical approach to life enhanced by practical thinking, as exemplified, is the very best prerequisite - die allerbeste Vorbedingung in Steiners words- to the development of clairvoyant consciousness.
Hence your number 1/ does not condition the intellect to expect a linear progression. Instead, it conditions it to find the bridge between intellectual and spiritual science (the same bridge which Cleric has said he is interested in developing for the scientifically minded person of today).
Please, Federica, try for a moment to lay aside what Steiner said and what you think he means, and instead try to freely orient to the inner process at work. In what way is it helpful as preparation to avoid introspection and meditative concentration in our 'practical thinking' exercises? If you are not proposing a path of thinking that initially avoids this archetypal foundation, then why do you keep emphasizing the pursuit of 'practical thinking' is non-meditative and distinct from imaginative concentration? Unless it is simply to have something to argue with me about, I imagine there is some basis for you continually emphasizing this point on thread after thread. Can you elaborate this basis without using Steiner's throat? What exactly does the pursuit of practical thinking entail and how does it enrich and deepen our inner life, orienting it to its spiritual foundations, while circumventing the principle of imaginative concentration?
The reason why I keep quoting Steiner is not because I'm unable to freely explore these processes by myself. It's instead to show that you may not take seriously what I say, but since it's Steiner who puts practical thinking as prerequisite for clairvoyant consciousness, you should be more careful before dismissing it.
I guess you know this very well already, and simply can't resist the rhetorical temptation to make me look dumb, unfree, stuck with "Steiner says", and so on. Besides, if you had read more carefully, you would know that I never said, suggested or imply that practical thinking leads or should lead to avoiding introspection. Instead I said the opposite, and the reason why I emphasize that practical thinking is non-meditative is for its bridging power for the benefit of the scientist who in general is not naturally open to concentration efforts. Practical thinking can help the scientifically oriented mind to develop a healthy sense for truth.
This has been well expressed in Martin O'Keefe-Liddard's post. Let us notice that you had the initiative to report that post which you described as "another great example of the direction in which the 'culmination' of Anthroposophy should be sought". Strangely enough, after I referred to the post as an excellent example of bridging intellectual and spiritual science via empiricism and practical thinking, you changed, and said "his post is only accurate insofar as the work with spiritual science as hypotheses engages a primarily introspective-meditative". Strange, isn't it? First you post it here as a commendable example of spiritual-scientific pursuit, only to doubt its accuracy, after I praised it. Anyway.
But this gets us nowhere, because it is disputed what Steiner and Martin mean in all of these configurations of skull bones. Even this has been useful, because I have now developed a deeper appreciation for how two souls can work with the exact same content and come away with quite different perspectives on its meaning (I have also been quoting Steiner and Cleric for the same reason you expressed, so it's not about making you look dumb, but realizing how we have both gotten stuck in this unfruitful approach). But if there is to be any progress toward mutual understanding, we need something more along the lines of what you provided here:
Practical thinking enriches our inner life by making the thinker more keenly aware of its correspondences with the outer life around us. It allow the rational mind to dive into the details of sensory reality, and follow the temporal patterns that emerge from those sequences of details. Along these patterns, the mind becomes more sensitive to the dynamic alignment of the thoughts with outer reality and its concepts. As I already said, the key is that the thoughts we have about the details only can arise in consciousness because they constitute the reality of those details in the first place. It's like skiing down a meandering piste. The routes are determined by both the piste and the skier, they are inscribed in both, and the varying sequence of meanders, or details, creates a sensitivity for the correspondence. In this way, practical thinking is simply a first subtle antidote to the modern, default attitude to consider that reality is "out there", and the thoughts about it are in our mind, as two separate worlds. It's so obvious and simple. This is what it means to develop a sense for truth. Practical thinking does not directly develop clairvoyant consciousness, as concentrative meditation does. But it educates the consciousness to a healthier relation to the unitary nature of reality, in a mood of careful, respectful, excited, even marveling empiricism. The spreading of this approach would be very beneficial today.
Thanks for this explication. How would you differentiate this idea of 'practical thinking' from what, for example, ML is doing when precisely studying the sensory patterns of biological life? Does ML's thinking process also lead to more sensitivity to the correspondence between the thoughts we have about the details and the reality of those details (for example, by noticing how there is a cognitive agentic element to how the patterns unfold)? If not, in what ways would you say his process deviates from what you are describing here as practical thinking? I hope we can continue exploring such questions independently of anything Steiner or anyone else has said, for now.