Jordan Peterson “Beyond Order” book excerpt: Aeon of Horus, Osiris, Star Wars, Jung and Crowley

[Soul_of_Shu]

... somebody asked how many have tripped being Jesus, at some point of their path. Almost all raised their hands.

There's a re-imagined story that Jesus didn't actually corporeally die on the cross, but was taken down just in time, so not really resurrected, but rather resuscitated and nursed back to health by Mary Magdalene, and then went into anonymous exile, perhaps somewhere in the Himalayas, to take up a new life ~ in which case it may be that even Jesus moved on from being Jesus. Maybe sacrilegious, but I feel some affinity with that version.

[Lou Gold]

... somebody asked how many have tripped being Jesus, at some point of their path. Almost all raised their hands.

There's a re-imagined story that Jesus didn't actually corporeally die on the cross, but was taken down just in time, so not really resurrected, but rather resuscitated and nursed back to health by Mary Magdalene, and then went into anonymous exile, perhaps somewhere in the Himalayas, to take up a new life ~ in which case it may be that even Jesus moved on from being Jesus. Maybe sacrilegious, but I feel some affinity with that version.

Since consciousness never dies Jesus remains to be reborn over and over again. Similar to Ramana, who while dying, assures his followers with, "I'm not leaving you. Where would I go?"

[AshvinP]

There is a certain anti-pragmatic bias here which wants us to replace what works very well to mitigate separation and alienation, as established over many centuries and throughout many different cultures, with what most people will barely understand, and what will feel entirely foreign to their soul-spirit. JP's alleged willful blindness is literally transforming thousands of people's lives with the symbols he employs and the way he employs them, bringing some back from the brink of suicide. Will the rather cold, detached (but new!) mathematical foundation you are proposing do the same? Will it provide people with enough 'why' to live so they can bear any 'how'? I highly doubt it.

Anti-pragmatic? Replace?

I don't know what you mean. At least in the mathematical context, it is the set theoretical foundation is highly anti-pragmatic. Hilbert arbitrarily declares highly abstract language game, which for the most part can't be constructed in numbers, not written in any form, not even as generative algorithms. He declares that there exists "numbers" that cannot be demonstrated and computed, but despite that are "able" to do basic arithmetics, even though only in principle but never in practice. The current theory is very literally declaration that Emperor has new clothes. To believe in non-constructible theory of non-demonstrable "numbers", to believe in very literal Emperor's new clothes, that is a very curious form of willful blindness.

There's no suggestion to replace anything else but the set theoretical foundation. To improve the pragmatic aspect of mathematics, to be able to write continua and construct communicable mathematics, instead of the authoritarian axiomatic declaration that continua are literal Emperor's new clothes.

Somehow your thought and emotions seem to create a scenario, where JP and a better foundation of mathematics are mutually exclusive, opposite forces. Doesn't that scenario emerge from combination of either-or and turning JP into an object of worship, instead of compassion with his humanity and spiritual journey. Does that attitude of objectifying and externalizing do justice to Jordan, a fellow human being and his suffering, his care? In your heart, do you really want to keep on repeating that pattern of human sacrifice, to individuate and separate Jordan into your shaman tool?

You seem offended by observation of willful blindness. Is your shadow integration complete? Can it be complete? Could the feeling of offense be a defense mechanism of the Shadow against it's integration in the light of consciousness?

I am just going off your comments and critcisms... you obviously feel anyone focusing on the "old" myths is being "willfully blind", like JP. That's where we disagree. I have no problem saying your mathematical approach can exist in the wide range of helpful symbols which point to spiritual realities, but it cannot be the Foundation i.e. the primary set of symbols or used as a replacement for the Mystery of Golgotha.

[Soul_of_Shu]

Since consciousness never dies Jesus remains to be reborn over and over again.

Could be, could be,
as there is a JC
creating seemingly
'miraculous' harmony

[Lou Gold]

Since consciousness never dies Jesus remains to be reborn over and over again.

Could be, could be,
as there is a JC
creating seemingly
'miraculous' harmony

EXACTLY!

[Soul_of_Shu]

Since consciousness never dies Jesus remains to be reborn over and over again.

Could be, could be,
as there is a JC
creating seemingly
'miraculous' harmony

EXACTLY!

Now considering a rule for better or for worse
that all posts now must be in rhyming verse.

[Martin_]

Could be, could be,
as there is a JC
creating seemingly
'miraculous' harmony

EXACTLY!

Now considering a rule for better or for worse
that all posts now must be in rhyming verse.

i would not agree
to such decree

[Lou Gold]

EXACTLY!

Now considering a rule for better or for worse
that all posts now must be in rhyming verse.

i would not agree
to such decree

Ding dong
What's wrong?

[AshvinP]

You seem offended by observation of willful blindness. Is your shadow integration complete? Can it be complete? Could the feeling of offense be a defense mechanism of the Shadow against it's integration in the light of consciousness?

Just to clarify here, I am only "offended" (more accurately, disappointed) by suggestions to diminish or otherwise marginalize the work JP is doing, because that sort of person with that sort of influence is extremely rare and there is no shortage of reasons for him to bow out of the spiritual discussion completely. In a recent interview he relates that he wakes up in agony every day due to Akathisia and has to live in "15 minute increments" to make it through the day. The only reason he doesn't go to emergency room every day is because he spent 1.5 years in various hospitals and he knows they cannot do anything to relieve the agony. Even the best among us can fall from heroism into irrelevance or villainy if we are not careful and gracious in our approach to what they offer us. I am not suggesting your comments here are making it back to JP or anything like that, but they may certainly influence those who have only heard of him in passing and have not yet considered much of his work.

[Lou Gold]

You seem offended by observation of willful blindness. Is your shadow integration complete? Can it be complete? Could the feeling of offense be a defense mechanism of the Shadow against it's integration in the light of consciousness?

Just to clarify here, I am only "offended" (more accurately, disappointed) by suggestions to diminish or otherwise marginalize the work JP is doing, because that sort of person with that sort of influence is extremely rare and there is no shortage of reasons for him to bow out of the spiritual discussion completely. In a recent interview he relates that he wakes up in agony every day due to Akathisia and has to live in "15 minute increments" to make it through the day. The only reason he doesn't go to emergency room every day is because he spent 1.5 years in various hospitals and he knows they cannot do anything to relieve the agony. Even the best among us can fall from heroism into irrelevance or villainy if we are not careful and gracious in our approach to what they offer us. I am not suggesting your comments here are making it back to JP or anything like that, but they may certainly influence those who have only heard of him in passing and have not yet considered much of his work.

Akathisia Bingo! This is why I instantly recognized him papably as a "wounded healer." No one should therefore less value the healing message, However, the shadow should be recognized as well and held, with compassion, in balance.