Nietzsche and Christianity - Metaphysical Idealist Critique

[AshvinP]

In theistic fundamentalism, the material/natural realm becomes so tainted by sin that any values connected to it must be shunned and it must be escaped from in one manner or another.

Makes me feel, "Perhaps you are offering a sinless (forgiving because there is nothing to forgive) Christianity, "but that would be a very unusual form of Christianity."

Not at all, the sinful nature of humanity is undeniable. I am suggesting the sinner is not other than the redeemer of sin. What naturally evolved into humanity will also be naturally redeemed by humanity, as opposed to some supernatural force which we can never really relate to or comprehend.

Redeemed by a natural (not supernatural) force of which humanity is part but not top dog. Nature bats last! It's very relatable if one is willing to relate rather than be diverted by notions of Nirvana or Heaven. However, I agree that when viewed through an ecological lens, "the sinful nature of humanity is undeniable."

Ecological disaster is downstream of metaphysical split, i.e. the 'original sin' was human self-consciousness. And therefore 'sin' is not all "evil" - we are going beyond good and evil here. But our self-conscious imagination must now be used to restore unity and integrate with individuality, rather than push the metaphysical divides even further. Another such divide is human culture-nature, manifested in radical environmental activist movements and anti-natalist philosophy. Such worldviews are not immune from the metaphysical divide and are especially dangerous because they are completely unaware of how the divide informs their views. The slogan "nature bats last" serves as proof of that inability to imagine humanity and nature united again.

[Lou Gold]

The slogan "nature bats last" serves as proof of that inability to imagine humanity and nature united again.

NONSENSE! The slogan means that humanity is not separate from nature. The uniting will occur through events from which no entity is separate. Aho Mitakuye Oyasin

[SanteriSatama]

Another such divide is human culture-nature, manifested in radical environmental activist movements and anti-natalist philosophy.

Only in those? In more holistic view, animism is fairly conservative, and so is post-structuralist "relationism" or perspectivism, as philosophically it share's a lot of common with animism.

https://ecologicalcitizen.net/pdfs/v03n1-13.pdf


Sure, in holistic view also quantitative technocracy, which objectifies and reifies nature into resources, is part of nature, not outside the whole. That does not mean that the cultural projection of "nature" by technocratic scientism is true, or that it's relation is healthy. Environmental philosophy, which seeks to heal our unhealthy relation, has struggled with the concept pair culture-nature, not finding a coherent and satisfying way to speak the division away. The contribution of new animism - perspectival multinaturalism - offers a good solution to this conundrum.

[AshvinP]

The slogan "nature bats last" serves as proof of that inability to imagine humanity and nature united again.

NONSENSE! The slogan means that humanity is not separate from nature. The uniting will occur through events from which no entity is separate. Aho Mitakuye Oyasin

No, it doesn't mean that. It means something like, "you silly humans... just wait until nature takes her revenge on all that you have done to her". Maybe you mean something completely different, but then you should pay more attention to the slogans you employ.

[Lou Gold]

The slogan "nature bats last" serves as proof of that inability to imagine humanity and nature united again.

NONSENSE! The slogan means that humanity is not separate from nature. The uniting will occur through events from which no entity is separate. Aho Mitakuye Oyasin

No, it doesn't mean that. It means something like, "you silly humans... just wait until nature takes her revenge on all that you have done to her". Maybe you mean something completely different, but then you should pay more attention to the slogans you employ.

I stand firm with the notion that "nature bats last" means "no separation" and "no free lunch" and rest my case.

[Soul_of_Shu]

...and rest my case.

Not sure if Ashvin is the prosecutor or defence council, but are we ready to take this to the jury?

[AshvinP]

...and rest my case.

Not sure if Ashvin is the prosecutor or defence council, but are we ready to take this to the jury?

I'm moving for summary judgment as a matter of law, so no jury needed, only the Judge. In the absence of BK, I think that's either you or Simon...

[Soul_of_Shu]

Don't know about Simon, but I'm suggesting we take a recess

[Simon Adams]

Don't know about Simon, but I'm suggesting we take a recess

LOL - sounds like a wise decision and I’m happy to support. I try not to play a judicial role, as my views are sometimes controversial, and I’d like people to feel free to say I’m talking crap in a way that wouldn’t be fitting to a judge

[AshvinP]

Another such divide is human culture-nature, manifested in radical environmental activist movements and anti-natalist philosophy.

Only in those? In more holistic view, animism is fairly conservative, and so is post-structuralist "relationism" or perspectivism, as philosophically it share's a lot of common with animism.

https://ecologicalcitizen.net/pdfs/v03n1-13.pdf


Sure, in holistic view also quantitative technocracy, which objectifies and reifies nature into resources, is part of nature, not outside the whole. That does not mean that the cultural projection of "nature" by technocratic scientism is true, or that it's relation is healthy. Environmental philosophy, which seeks to heal our unhealthy relation, has struggled with the concept pair culture-nature, not finding a coherent and satisfying way to speak the division away. The contribution of new animism - perspectival multinaturalism - offers a good solution to this conundrum.

Definitely not only in those. Pretty much in every somewhat popular worldview, one pole or the other is neglected to an alarming degree which only leads to totalitarianism and or nihilism. Which is why Nietsche had a healthy dose of incisive criticism for just about everyone, past, present and future.

I know you provided a link, which I may check out later, but can also provide a synopsis of "new animism" tenets? TiA!