If you think it through, it is somehow funny that we are/were experiencing lonliness and anxiety, independently from each other but for the same reason, just because we do not trust each other for having a self-experiantal I. It sounds redicolous but in that situation it can feel very real.Sophie268 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:57 pmI would say that with point number 4, this wasn't necessarily the case for me. Without having read about Solipsism, it came about "naturally" for me during times of extreme and rather constant synchronicities, while in the midst of spiritual breakthroughs (or shall I say breakdowns ). The feeling that the external world was swirling around me, and me alone, came about through these "breaks" in what seemed previously plausible to me, ie my previously held beliefs of materialism. I would say that it wasn't exactly true Solipsism, but more along the lines that God and I were the only ones in existence and that the world, and those in it, were only there to bring me to new places of understanding. I did not enjoy this feeling, as even with that feeling of God present, it still felt incredibly lonely, terrifying, and yes, narcissistic. The feeling was there all the same, but it was through thinking about some of the other points you've listed that I was able to combat this feeling and ease myself away from the cliff. I am wondering if this solipsism feeling is part of the process when those walls of previously strongly held belief on the nature of reality start to crumble. I will say that these experiences were the reason I went searching for answers and found this forum, for which I am very grateful.dachmidt wrote: ↑Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:19 pmThanks for your response, I totally agree.Lysander wrote: ↑Mon Aug 09, 2021 5:17 am
This is not exactly the kind of argument you are looking for but its a satisfying answer to me nonetheless.
I think it was in one of Francis Lucille's retreats, he answered to the effect that nobody actually lives as if solipsism is true. Even if you take it as your preferred best explanation of reality, you will find it next to impossible to actually embody and implement. It is counter-intuitive at the deepest level. To resolve the cognitive dissonance you must say: "I know I am the only being in reality, but I will pretend others are real to sustain the fantasy of non-solipsism." In other words, to live authentically as a solipsist means to act as if solipsism isn't real. Because to act as if solipsism is actually real would mean to be a non-empathic sociopath indifferent to love, compassion or ethical restraints of any kind. So even if you cannot logically disprove solipsism, you should be comfortable dismissing it experientially as implausible.
Thinking it through, it's not only experientially implausible (which is still probably the strongest argument against it) but also logically.
I came up with the following points:
1. Even If Solipsism were true, it doesn't change anything at all when it comes to the big questions like "why am I here?" and "what is live all about?". The only difference would be that instead of looking for God or a higher purpose, I would be God and the higher purpose myself, which sounds very narcisstic.
2. Why is it, that I am so dependent on others when it comes to increasing knowlede and wisdom? Why do I have to make up people who teach me what should already be mine? It's more likely, that knowledge and wisdom is a challenge for us humans as a collective.
3. Why is it that the "outer world" is completely out of my control? Why does it sometimes overwhelm me? And if I change stages of my consciousness/psyche/desires/wishes, why does the world not unfold itself according to those new patterns? Again, it is much more reasonable that the world unfolds itself according to a collective consciousness, where I am only a part of.
4. Why is it that relational feelings and interactions like love, empathy or sexuality seem so natural, whereas I would never have come to the Idea of Solipsism myself, if I haven't read about it? It indicates that Solipsism is nothing more than a mind game, while relationships are an inevitable part of our intuitive self.
5. Why is there even a world of forms and languages, a world of perception, when there is no one to interact with? It's very hard to make any sense of the whole story of life and humans within Solipsism, so why even come up with it in first place?
6. The very fact, that I have much more questions than I have answers when it comes to anything important in life, shows, that I would have to be a clueless genius. It's completely contradictory.
But you made a good and interesting point, by stating that those kinds of thoughts might be a part of the process when strong hold beliefs start to crumble (which is definetely the case for me).
I've been reflecting on my fear of lonliness and the anxiety that comes from Solipsism, and one thing that was very salient was the fact, that because of my christian, evangelical upbringing I never learned to really trust myself. Instead I was taught that we as humans are sinful and depraved and in need for a saviour. Being "alone", without concrete divine guidance or orientation (at least I am not sure anymore how to think about God) made me feel very uncomfortable and anxious. Probably my challenge is to find divinity within myself and to start to trust my experiences instead of neglecting them. Maybe the fear of solipism is only a symptom of a deeper underlying problem, instead of the problem itself (due to the practical and logical flaws).