Philosophical Speculations

To put it bluntly, God has will. Personal separate egos do not. But who are you? You are not your ego, you are God!

Haven't read the whole thread yet.

Kastrup is great in showing why "free will" is a red herring.

Kastrap is not great when he then contradicts himself by saying that we are free when we resisit outside determinations.

findingblanks wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:46 am Haven't read the whole thread yet.

Kastrup is great in showing why "free will" is a red herring.

Kastrap is not great when he then contradicts himself by saying that we are free when we resisit outside determinations.

I think you pretty much captured the theme of the thread..

I understand why many people are concerned about the issue of free will but honestly I don't understand the point either way? I don't think the free will issue has much of a bearing on idealism and with or without it we can still be idealists. Whether there is free will or not you're always going to do what you want to do. In fact I think a world where free will is possible and one where it isn't probably look almost identical because either way people are doing the things they want to do anyways. The non-free will perspective isn't one where we're being forced against our will to make desicions we don't want to make. I'm an agnostic on the issue and either way I don't think it does anything to impact the idealist position.

I'm also agnostic to the "metaphysical" question of free will and I agree with Astra that in practical terms it is irrelevant. However, what does matter is how much our choices are conditioned by circumstances. From that perspective our choices are realistically never (or at least very rarely) completely free, since they are almost always conditioned to some degree by external and internal circumstances. Yet, we can still speak of their relative unconditionality depending on how much and to what degree they are conditioned by those circumstances. BK's definition is that our choices are free if they are not conditioned by "external" circumstances. However, in such case, the degree of their freedom (un-conditionality) is very limited if they are still strongly conditioned by our internal circumstances (desires, biases etc that we habitually identify with our "selves"). Higher degree of non-conditionality can be still achieved if the decisions being made by our consciousness become less conditioned by desires and biases and more determined by reasonings coming from high-level cognition.

Astra052 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:59 pm I understand why many people are concerned about the issue of free will but honestly I don't understand the point either way? I don't think the free will issue has much of a bearing on idealism and with or without it we can still be idealists. Whether there is free will or not you're always going to do what you want to do. In fact I think a world where free will is possible and one where it isn't probably look almost identical because either way people are doing the things they want to do anyways. The non-free will perspective isn't one where we're being forced against our will to make desicions we don't want to make. I'm an agnostic on the issue and either way I don't think it does anything to impact the idealist position.

I certainly agree that the question of freewill has no bearing on metaphysical Idealism. However, I disagree that it is not relevant to how the world looks. The vast majority of people act, behave and judge under the assumption that they and others do have some freewill. And, there is psychological research that supports the idea that a person's belief about freewill affects their judgement and behavior:

https://labs.psych.ucsb.edu/schooler/jo ... -free-will

This freedom that may or may not exist, how would it manifest if it did exist?

Martin_ wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:48 pm This freedom that may or may not exist, how would it manifest if it did exist?

If it exists in some form (somewhere in the space between determinism and randomness - if that's even possible), it would manifest in studies, like in the link mentioned above, and many other aspects of everyday life. It mostly depends on what level of decision making/deliberation such freedom might be possible. Though I may have completely misunderstood the question..

ItayNagar wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:34 pm

Astra052 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:59 pm I understand why many people are concerned about the issue of free will but honestly I don't understand the point either way? I don't think the free will issue has much of a bearing on idealism and with or without it we can still be idealists. Whether there is free will or not you're always going to do what you want to do. In fact I think a world where free will is possible and one where it isn't probably look almost identical because either way people are doing the things they want to do anyways. The non-free will perspective isn't one where we're being forced against our will to make desicions we don't want to make. I'm an agnostic on the issue and either way I don't think it does anything to impact the idealist position.

I certainly agree that the question of freewill has no bearing on metaphysical Idealism. However, I disagree that it is not relevant to how the world looks. The vast majority of people act, behave and judge under the assumption that they and others do have some freewill. And, there is psychological research that supports the idea that a person's belief about freewill affects their judgement and behavior:

https://labs.psych.ucsb.edu/schooler/jo ... -free-will

I understand why it would be even if you don't believe in free will I think you still understand that people are doing the things they want to do. Either way its the same result and in all honesty doesn't matter a whole lot.

ItayNagar wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:34 pm I certainly agree that the question of freewill has no bearing on metaphysical Idealism. However, I disagree that it is not relevant to how the world looks. The vast majority of people act, behave and judge under the assumption that they and others do have some freewill. And, there is psychological research that supports the idea that a person's belief about freewill affects their judgement and behavior:

https://labs.psych.ucsb.edu/schooler/jo ... -free-will

That raises a whole question whether we should chose our beliefs or metaphysical views based on their philosophical validity or truthfulness, or based on their social or psychological effects and benefits (or may be some compromise between both)?