Philosophical Speculations

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:24 pm

I believe that this raises an interesting dilemma for the model of BK, which stresses mentality although the Integral is somehow not the Mental.

Indeed, we're still stuck with the outmoded praxis and lingo of the preceding stage.

The integral is just that - integrating all previous structures: archaic, magical, mythical, mental and rational; 'unperspectival' and 'perspectival' into 'aperspectival'. Space-free and time-free (not less).

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:24 pm

I believe that this raises an interesting dilemma for the model of BK, which stresses mentality although the Integral is somehow not the Mental.

Indeed, we're still stuck with the outmoded praxis and lingo of the preceding stage.

OK! Perhaps it's better to jump into the experience than to endlessly discuss it. I believe this is how initiation works, it's a plunge, a baptism. And after the experience is obtained there will remain an ongoing maintenance of cleaning away the toxicities of lingo. Getting clean does not mean no more baths. The preceding stage clings to developmental lingo. Thus, "the spoken tao is not the Eternal Tao," ever, ever, ever. So, "Be still and know that I am God' or "Shine don't Whine."

AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:42 pmThe integral is just that - integrating all previous structures: archaic, magical, mythical, mental and rational; 'unperspectival' and 'perspectival' into 'aperspectival'. Space-free and time-free (not less).

Yes , it's all subsumed. Still, will not a novel integral-stage praxis and lingo eventually prevail?

Lou Gold wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:53 pmOK! Perhaps it's better to jump into the experience than to endlessly discuss it.

Eventually there's no other option but to jump in. Yet without discussion, how does a novel lingo evolve and perpetuate?

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:55 pm

AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:42 pmThe integral is just that - integrating all previous structures: archaic, magical, mythical, mental and rational; 'unperspectival' and 'perspectival' into 'aperspectival'. Space-free and time-free (not less).

Yes , it's all subsumed. Still, will not a novel integral praxis and lingo eventually prevail?

Indeed, for a while and liberation will become obfuscation. So why cling to it? Why defend it fiercely? Why attach to it thusly when one might just practice letting go? As endless scriptures say, "Surrender to Me and know My Love."

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:00 pm

Lou Gold wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:53 pmOK! Perhaps it's better to jump into the experience than to endlessly discuss it.

Eventually there's no other option but to jump in. Yet without discussion, how does a novel lingo evolve and perpetuate?

It does it by shining its light rather than whining.

Discussion = whining?

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:12 pm Discussion = whining?

SANCTIFY don't JUSTIFY Count the People

Lou Gold wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:14 pmSANCTIFY don't JUSTIFY Count the People

You do realize you're whining about the lack of sanctifying over justifying

Lou Gold wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:14 pm

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Tue Jan 26, 2021 11:12 pm Discussion = whining?

SANCTIFY don't JUSTIFY Count the People

It can be a fierce back-and-forth as in this example. What I'm driving at (and challenging myself as well) is not just a new lingo but also a new way of discussing. I believe it's worth contemplating.