AshvinP wrote: ↑Thu Oct 06, 2022 12:29 am
Federica wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:51 pm
Federica wrote: ↑Wed Oct 05, 2022 6:22 am
I have some more work left before I can properly answer that.
I've been struggling a lot with the n-times"stop the free fall now" vs. "maybe put it on the side, actually don't rush it just yet" type of seemingly irreconcilable messages. That's been 'advanced' work for me. Not the ideas in themselves. But now it's OK, I could wrap my head around that.
I'm glad you are resolving it on your own. As you can imagine, esoteric spiritual practice is a highly individualized endeavor, as it should be to engender inner freedom. To give someone really specific advice like "do this exercise now, do that one later, stop the exercises and study" or anything similar, would be as irresponsible as a doctor giving tailored medicinal and nutritional advice without having spent a lot of time with the patient. So I hope that's not what it sounds like I am doing. I just want to point out various broad conceptual considerations, which will integrate into a more holistic tapestry over time, even if it's not evident at first, and perhaps the most general counsel which will be helpful for anyone. From there, our own trial and error and
living feedback from the rhythmic alternation of meditative and sensory-intellectual life, which it sounds like you are already receiving and discerning, will be most helpful
On that note, I just came across yet another lecture which has something directly relevant to offer on the topic of 'rushing' or not rushing, as the case may be
Steiner wrote:The essence of Rosicrucian training may be described in two words: true self-knowledge. The Rosicrucian pupil has to distinguish two things, not merely theoretically but practically, so that they become part of his everyday life. There are two forms of self-knowledge — the lower form, called by the Rosicrucian pupil “self-mirroring”, which should serve to overcome the lower self, and the higher form of self-knowledge which is born out of self-renunciation.
...
You can get out of the habit of self-admiration by a particular method which can be practised whenever you have five minutes for it. You must start from the principle that all characteristics are one-sided; you must learn to recognise in what respects yours are one-sided and then try to balance them. This principle may not amount to much in theory, but in practice it is highly effective. If you are industrious, you must ask yourself whether your activity may not be wrongly applied. Quickness, too, is one-sided; it needs to be supplemented by careful deliberation. Every quality has its polar opposite; you should cultivate its opposite and then try to harmonise the two extremes. For example, make haste slowly; be quick and yet deliberate; deliberate and yet not slow. Then the pupil will begin to grow beyond himself. All this is not part of meditation, but must be acquired alongside it.
...
It is by attention to small details that this harmony can be achieved. If your tendency is not to let anyone finish what he is saying, you must keep a watch on yourself and make up your mind that for six weeks you will keep silent, as far as possible, when someone else is talking. Then you must accustom yourself to speak neither too loudly nor too softly. Things such as this, which are generally not thought of, contribute essentially to inner self-development, and the more attention you pay to quite insignificant characteristics, the better it will be. If you try not only to acquire certain moral, intellectual or emotional qualities, but to get rid of some external habit, this will be particularly effective. It is a question not so much of investigating your inner self as of endeavouring to perfect the qualities which you have not yet fully developed, and to complement those you already have by cultivating their polar counterparts.
As you can imagine, esoteric spiritual practice is a highly individualized endeavor, as it should be to engender inner freedom.
It’s not just that I can imagine it, Ashvin, I actually experience it (yes, I am particular about vocabulary for better or worse, nothing new in that
)
Besides, giving specific advice is certainly not what it sounds like you are doing, plus you have made the idea clear before. The disclaimer is well in place, no worries about it. That being said, I doubt the comparison with a medical doctor is fitting. Regardless of how much spiritually evolved one is, it’s a matter of personal inclination, responsibility, and choice to decide for oneself how to interpret and what to do with what one reads on this forum, including possible suggestions and advice, no matter how generic or specific. This choice is immediately accessible to any adult with normally developed mental activity. For the sake of argument, and given the philosophical/spiritual topic: if the balance of responsibilities was not as I’m saying, this place would not be a forum, but a place exposed to unduly exerted/endured influence. This is without doubt not the case here. And it builds on an equally shared discretion of all parties involved - on the sender’s side, as well as on the receiver’s.
In other words, we all have direct access to, and responsibility for making sense of our existence and place in this universe, individually and collectively. There is nothing more immediately and rightly accessible to the individual than inquiring these questions. Not so for the body of knowledge - some might call it an art - a medical doctor is supposed to possess, and apply in an individualized way, to patients who are lacking it, and have to practice trust, to some extent, blindly. So a doctor that was to abuse that trust, to misuse that art, would certainly be irresponsible, but conversations here can’t be evaluated by that same token. So I don’t think suggestions and evaluations, even specific ones, are irresponsible, as long as they are offered to the best of one’s knowledge and understanding, as well as with good faith and intention. I have actually both received and sometimes written such types of messages on this forum. And I have seen it done by others too. As you can imagine, for the suggestions I have expressed, I consider that my action has been responsible. Of course, this completely preserves everyone’s freedom to express more or less explicit and personal messages in the first place. I certainly don’t apply any judgments in this respect, except to myself. Overall, this is clearly a question of ethics, of right behavior, but I would imagine that individual perspective (and maybe karma?) also play an important role, where some might feel a relatively stronger imperative coming from responsibility and others from other things.
In my case, I take a high risk/high cost approach to the questions explored on this forum, because I consider them priorital, and I intend to invest in them as much relative weight and engagement as I feel I am able to manage (and sometimes I am not sure about exact quantities, I have to guess, and I might go a little over). The exposure to risks I’m talking about is, to a very large extent, self-exposure. I do it not because I like to feel uncomfortable of course, but because I believe it’s worth the price, and that nothing else is as relevant anyway. I would agree that, to a minor extent, risks could also possibly extend to those who engage in exchanges with me. The reasons why I still do it are as follows. First, risk is inevitable in all sorts of interactions anyway, and is very weakly correlated to how much time has been spent with a person. Second, I believe that my intention, good faith and understanding are appropriate safeguard (although, as I said above, everyone is the primary responsible for their own reading approach). Third, I believe that positive intentions alone can favor positive developments for others.
This hopefully also clarifies that, when I said that circles just can’t be squared, and later, that I had wrapped my head around seemingly irreconcilable suggestions, I was not expressing any expectations for specific advice. To be clear, the 'irreconcilable' advice was not yours, and not even specific to me in that case. It seems obvious, but just to be clear: in my post above, I was also not expressing any judgments on how others write posts. It's the opposite, I am thankful for the posts. The whole initiative was about taking some risks by posting about my experience with meditation, with the intention to create a positive dynamic, both for myself and others. In this case I am not sure if it's been useful for others. For my part, as it turned out, I ended up paying a price in terms of struggles. I did learn from the struggles, I can tell you. Better said, I've learned from the posts, about the struggles, and it was clearly worth the effort. That’s all.
Well, that’s not all - A thank you is missing, for the new quote and inspiration. If nothing else, I found it very useful to reveal or confirm, as the case may be, how much of a beginner one is on the path of self-knowledge.