Philosophical Speculations

Jim Cross wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:49 pmNo point.

AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:03 pm These questions are all very abstract modern age questions, and they are trying to "leap in one bound to the eternal" (Bergson). They want to skip over all the details which would actually make possible the answering of the questions. That is why I am asking for a more specified question - think about it like you have been given a grant to explore a specific scientific inquiry in any particular field. What is the research question we should get started on to work our way to some true knowledge of Nature (including spiritual realm)? If we are, in fact, "on the path to and heading towards acquiring deeper knowledge about finer details and underlying structures of the Universe", we must first ask some specified questions before we get those finer detailed answers, right?

AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:03 pm These questions are all very abstract modern age questions, and they are trying to "leap in one bound to the eternal" (Bergson). They want to skip over all the details which would actually make possible the answering of the questions. That is why I am asking for a more specified question - think about it like you have been given a grant to explore a specific scientific inquiry in any particular field. What is the research question we should get started on to work our way to some true knowledge of Nature (including spiritual realm)? If we are, in fact, "on the path to and heading towards acquiring deeper knowledge about finer details and underlying structures of the Universe", we must first ask some specified questions before we get those finer detailed answers, right?

AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 3:41 pm I am speaking of the actual process of living in the world - observing it, thinking about it, making sense of it, uncovering its rich meanings, enriching our own relationships with Nature and others. You want to abstract away from that in every post you write, which leads us entirely away from productive dialogue. I wonder if you notice how your posts get shorter and shorter in every subsequent comment - it is a great living illustration of deconstructionist abstraction which diminishes concrete meaning further and further until there is nothing left to write or respond to.

I am not speaking about fantasizing about some rationalist and mechanical Utopia where everything is "acceptable" to everyone at all times. It's about seeking truth in spiritual freedom wherever that may lead.

Dostoevsky is telling all of them that institutions and social structures don’t matter if the hearts of the people they serve aren’t free. He is telling us that the creation of a better world doesn’t happen at the level of government and institutions; it happens one human heart at a time.

SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:11 pm I keep wondering about ability to distinguish between truth and BS, and why you behave as you do.

Eugene I wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:33 pm

AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:03 pm These questions are all very abstract modern age questions, and they are trying to "leap in one bound to the eternal" (Bergson). They want to skip over all the details which would actually make possible the answering of the questions. That is why I am asking for a more specified question - think about it like you have been given a grant to explore a specific scientific inquiry in any particular field. What is the research question we should get started on to work our way to some true knowledge of Nature (including spiritual realm)? If we are, in fact, "on the path to and heading towards acquiring deeper knowledge about finer details and underlying structures of the Universe", we must first ask some specified questions before we get those finer detailed answers, right?

Well, you and Cleric a while ago claimed that the evolution of humanity is heading towards integration, so I wanted to question whether such assumption is actually true.

Eugene I wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:24 pm

SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:11 pm I keep wondering about ability to distinguish between truth and BS, and why you behave as you do.

I sadly have to agree with SS. In natural sciences the truths need to be validated and proven by experimental facts (which are the behaviors of natural systems). In spiritual, social and moral areas and sciences the truths need to be proven and validated by the practical social outcome and behavior of sentient beings adhering to the declared truths. No matter how beautiful and convincing the declared truths sound, if the behavior and practical outcomes of the individuals or groups proclaiming such truth do not align with the truths being proclaimed, such behaviors would naturally invalidate them, or at least be the evidences against the truths proclaimed. If we look back at the history, it shows us how the behaviors of adherents to beautifully and truly sounding social and spiritual paradigms (such as as Islam, Christianity or communism) eventually invalidated those paradigms and proved them nonfunctional. So, if there is an ethical, social or spiritual paradigm offered, the worst thing one can do is to proclaim and proselytize it by words and then invalidate it by their own behavior showing how a person adhering to these principles and paradigms can still behave contrary to the truths proclaimed. On the other hand, such instances might be quite useful, because they show us the early warning signs of how and in which ways such new paradigms could become nonfunctional before they become adapted on the mass scale.

I also tend to look at spiritual, moral and social paradigms from the psychological/psychotherapeutic perspective. I often observe how certain paradigms are the ways of "acting out" the underlying psychological neuroses while denying the very existence of such neuroses, and other paradigms are the ways of admitting, addressing, investigating the roots and healing the underlying neuroses. I think it's a good way of distinguishing functional and non-functional paradigms.

Eugene I wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:30 pm

AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 5:03 pm These questions are all very abstract modern age questions, and they are trying to "leap in one bound to the eternal" (Bergson). They want to skip over all the details which would actually make possible the answering of the questions. That is why I am asking for a more specified question - think about it like you have been given a grant to explore a specific scientific inquiry in any particular field. What is the research question we should get started on to work our way to some true knowledge of Nature (including spiritual realm)? If we are, in fact, "on the path to and heading towards acquiring deeper knowledge about finer details and underlying structures of the Universe", we must first ask some specified questions before we get those finer detailed answers, right?

Well, the first obvious question for the "true knowledge of Nature" investigation project would be how exactly the observable universe is manifested ( including both natural phenomena and phycological phenomena). A starting assumption could be that there are certain structures "behind" the observable phenomena responsible for the generation and correlating of the observable phenomena. Then based on this assumption we would have further questions:
- How do these structures exactly function?
- How and in which ways are these two types of structures (producing natural phenomena and psychological phenomena) similar and in which ways they are different?

AshvinP wrote: ↑Tue Jul 27, 2021 7:53 pm So... what specific question do you want to pursue re: evolution of consciousness