Eugene I wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:55 pm
SanteriSatama wrote: ↑Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:22 pm
Just to correct factual misconception of physicalist theories. 1st law of thermodynamics is violated by vacuum energy fluctuation, virtual particles and whatever you call them. CPT symmetry means, roughly speaking, that the sum of positive and negative energy is zero.
Of course the energy concept of physicalism is just a speculative variety of abstract math.
Right, the energy conservation law is simply a mathematical abstract property that is invariant with respect to temporal transformations (and, based on the Netter's theorem, is a simple consequence of the temporal symmetry of the base physical equations). Eternalism is a philosophical premise that assumes that the invariants (of physical or mathematical theories, or of our inner experiences) represent some existing "eternal entities or essences". It works in a similar way in math, physics and in psychology.
We observe a certain abstract invariant in our stream of consciousness - the sense of self - and imagine that it represents some eternally and separately/independently existing "self"-entity.
Apparently, eternalism is not only a Western and a recent phenomenon based on the fact that Buddha was arguing against exactly that in India 2500 yrs ago.
You guys are right about the energy conservation law, but in the exact opposite way than what you think. Here is a very helpful hint for those who approach these things with an open mind - if some way of thinking was derived in the modern age, you can probably assume the exact opposite formulation is true. If someone says material processes give rise to mental processes, flip it around for the truth. If someone says the individual plant is more real than the archetypal plant, flip it. If someone says that "energy" actually disappears from the Universe as things pass away never to come back, flip it. As old energy dies, new energy is reborn and there is always
more energy infusing the Cosmos than there was before, as it flows from eternal spiritual realm into transient physical realm in the course of the latter's metamorphic development. That is what allows for true novelty in the Cosmos.
Eugene, do you realize that by denying "eternalism" you are also denying polar essences?
Eternality is one of the fundamental poles! You really have the toughest time with these things. The "polarity" formulation is used because it should be very easy for anyone to grasp, even those without much philosophical background knowledge, but somehow you always end up denying it right after affirming it. Same goes for the fundamental nature of ideating (Thinking) activity in the Tri-Unity of OP, or "quaternity" if you insist on adding "E" for some unknown reason. The "E" is implicit in W, F, and T - obviously all of those activities include experiencing. But if that makes it easier for you, then by all means add the "E". I think you will find, however, when you investigate these essences further, the extraneous "E" will become a stumbling block to any real understanding of them. The threefoldness of W-F-T, body-soul-spirit, etc. is extremely important to recognize when approaching higher knowledge.
Another thing that must be flipped - when someone says their philosophical outlook is combatting abstraction of modernity, then there is a good chance that their outlook is the most abstract of them all. That is pretty clear from SS, as his ontological math arguments can barely be understood, and Eugene, you are now showing that as well in the bolded assertion. You are taking the
immanent "sense of self", which no reasonable person can deny, and then denying it based on
your own abstract conception of "self" as a "separate/independently existing" entity. Who introduced that conception into the discussion? You did! These sorts of wild maneuvers only became possible in the modern age. Therefore, you are completely wrong to assert Buddha was "
arguing exactly against that" [eternality].
To understand the Buddha and the Christ beings and their teachings, we must put some serious effort into studying all the ancient mysteries and their metamorphic progression through the epochs prior to them (Indian, Persian, Egyptian, Greco-Roman). That is pretty easy to do with modern technology, but I am also in the process of writing some essays on that topic. These understandings will not come through mystical experience. Otherwise, we could just wait and pray for people to ingest enough psychedelics to attain them and reunite the world in peace and harmony. But we intuitively know that won't happen... it won't happen any more than people can meditate or trip their way into a medical degree. We want that to be true because it relieves us of so much responsibility when confronting the metaphysical and spiritual, but everyone knows subconsciously that such things are pure fantasy. Nothing good comes easy.