Philosophical Speculations

Eugene I wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 2:13 am I don't think there is one "right" understanding and attitude to the life challenges and sufferings, but rather there are many possible attitudes, including positive and negative ones. Listing some positive ones (because negative are not productive):
- Faith and hope ("I don't know why I'm suffering but I trust God that there is a reason and meaning to it"). This is what many religious people do.
- Learning and spiritual growth by experience through succession of incarnated lives. This is what NDE/regression data often suggests and New-Age religion holds.
- Challenging and dangerous adventure similar to mountain climbing. This is what some believers in "Earth as virtual reality game" theory holds.
- Opportunity for creative activity and creative exploration of the space of conscious forms and states.

It's possible that it's not one or the other, but all of them are valid at the same time. I personally like the last two ones because they are not so utilitarian-targeted towards some ultimate telos that we all need to achieve. The "need to achieve" and "the need to meet God's expectations" feels somewhat neurotic to me. I do creative work just for the delight of the process itself and for the sake of the beauty of creations with no need to achieve anything or meet any expectations. The growth in learning, knowledge and development of consciousness for me is an unintended byproduct of creative activity rather than a telos.

Simon Adams wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:55 am There is definitely a teleos, and it is growth and learning, but it’s one where we are asked to accept how it affects ourselves with trust for it to work, “take up your cross”, “He must become greater; I must become less” (rebelling against it has the opposite effect and “hardens the heart”). Nonetheless it’s a hard message, especially when we’re in the middle of it and see the suffering of people and creatures. This is where the faith part comes in, a confidence that it will make fuller sense when we are not in the visceral furnace of the process, once we have a wider and longer perspective on it that brings it all into context. Fortunately there are also many good and beautiful things in this life, as well as opportunities to do a small bit to help others in their suffering (which accelerates the process for you and for them).

Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 11:27 am

Simon Adams wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:55 am There is definitely a teleos, and it is growth and learning, but it’s one where we are asked to accept how it affects ourselves with trust for it to work, “take up your cross”, “He must become greater; I must become less” (rebelling against it has the opposite effect and “hardens the heart”). Nonetheless it’s a hard message, especially when we’re in the middle of it and see the suffering of people and creatures. This is where the faith part comes in, a confidence that it will make fuller sense when we are not in the visceral furnace of the process, once we have a wider and longer perspective on it that brings it all into context. Fortunately there are also many good and beautiful things in this life, as well as opportunities to do a small bit to help others in their suffering (which accelerates the process for you and for them).

If going by the factors considered in Decoding Jung's Metaphysics, then indeed there may be vastly greater forces, implications, contexts and destinies in play that corporeal alters just have limited control over, or knowledge of, however much we may still play some integral, reciprocal feedback role in the process. Lately I'm more and more inclined to focus on what I seemingly can control, which is the state of one's own heart and mind, and whether it is fear and loathing based, or love and compassion based, thus in some way determining the quality and integrity of the medium the Angels and Daemons have to work with in the alchemy of this crucible. Then, oh ye of little faith, behold what wonders the master Dream Creators, and we as their eager apprentices, can attain.

Eugene I wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:04 pm OK, I understand and would agree in general, but my question was about your view on the role and state of consciousness of the Divine in that process. How developed, meta-cognitive, benevolent etc you think it is (compared to us for example)?

Eugene I wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 3:04 pm OK, I understand and would agree in general, but my question was about your view on the role and state of consciousness of the Divine in that process. How developed, meta-cognitive, benevolent etc you think it is (compared to us for example)?

Shaibei wrote: ↑Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:17 pm After reading most of the book on Jung, I still feel that as a theist my position on the subject is slightly different. In this book I have indeed found more meaning than I find in Schopenhauer's blind will.
The book did convinced me that Jung held a metaphysical position only hinted at due to professional considerations. A more explicit formulation i find in the " unitary reality" of his student Erich Neumann, in a less philosophical formulation than that of Bernardo, but in my opinion not far from it