Essay: Symphony of Minds

[Lou Gold]

PS: I think Mind is much bigger than my thoughts. I think you do too. What's the beef?

Well, beef was an exaggeration, I simply addressed your "prejudice" (your own word). When people hear 'mind' it usually equates to intellect, dry and calculating. I believe this is why at first you couldn't see what such a mind could have in common with music/symphony. I agree that the word Mind is not the best. Usually, I don't use it in this way but I decided to experiment. I would rather use something like 'creative spiritual be-ing' but the experience here shows that 'being' is even more loaded with prejudices. So I decided to experiment with a more relatable word 'Mind' (after all, even Bernardo has called it Mind at large, and that contains everything, not only intellect). Clearly, there's no word that fits all tastes and prejudices That's why things have to be explained from more angles such that we don't stumble at the labels but seek the realities that are labeled. I hope the little experiment helped you see that there's always intuitive spiritual activity behind any form of expression - be it physical, mathematical, musical, etc. If you can recognize yourself within this inner spiritual core, which expresses through different lenses, you should also grasp the deeper sense in which 'Mind' was used.

What did you think of the concrete presentations and thoughts expressed by Jacob Collier?

I enjoy the breadth of his approach. And as said, I enjoy how he introspects and shares his inner processes. His spiritual being is presently exploring the Gödel candy shop of musical forms that express various feelings. Time will tell if he'll also find forms that express the Divine intuitive depth of these worlds. It's no secret that most of modern music looks more like combinatorics. Musicians shuffle and reshuffle musical patterns until they say "hm.. this sounds catchy." JC can explore patterns beyond the usual slots that most musicians stay into. He plays with microtones and so on. However, there's also another kind of music that can be compared to a translation of celestial ideal realities to the limited auditory language of music.

Excellent back-and-forth here Cleric. Thanks.

Please read this again:

Let me express my prejudice: When something is titled A Symphony of Minds I expect something that is audio or gives me a strong feeling of musicality within. Your graphics work sorta as a visual model (metaphor) but not as a sensual experience for me. I am therefore thrust into an intellectual appreciation more than an experience.

My prejudice was about using a musical metaphor that did not generate a musical feeling within me. The absence thrust me by default toward an inadequate intellectualism. Why did you make it about Mind?

Do you feel JC is missing that there is a kind of music that can be compared to a translation of celestial ideal realities to the limited auditory language of music? How do you know that?

But, yes, there is another kind of celestial music which is why some in the Eastern ways meditate on chanting the OM or a sutra. Or, in the Western tradition, monks explore consciousness with beautiful chants. Do you think they are naive or foolish or unaware or, perhaps, that they simply have other valid paths of exploration?

[Cleric K]

Isn't it the mission of the white brotherhood to harmonize the life of the humans, with the Cosmic plan of God?

Yes, it is. This is what the Symphony of Minds is. Spiritual beings who have as their highest ideal the Unity of all existence and its musical unfoldment.

Did you came across on his lectures about the spheres of afterlife?

Yes, he speaks of that, although not in such conceptual details as we find it in SS. His pedagogical method is quite different. This has to do with the specifics of the Slavic soul where he had his mission. Steiner had his mission for the Western mind, Beinsa Duno gave his teachings in a form more appropriate for the souls which still had some religious predisposition to work with the Christ. In other words, there's still faith. In Western Europe it was already quite difficult to reach the experience of the Christ in this way. The mind simply had lost all trust in the spiritual. That's why the only path to salvation passes through the spiritualization of the intellect. Today, however, these two approaches should already unite. Those who are predisposed because of their Karma to deep religious feelings and faith, need to bring to focus their intuitive activity. Conversely, those predisposed to work with the intellect should not remain only with thoughts but ignite through them the deep devotional life.

If we understand the difference between these souls in Eastern and Western Europe, we'll also understand why the Word of these masters had to take different forms. In spiritual science we have well-defined topics and a clear thread that is building through the lecture. The talks of BD may look chaotic on the surface. They also have a topic but it is much more heartfelt. The closest way I can describe this is if we compare it with the way babies learn language. We can't start with some basic words and build up from there. Instead, we need to continuously shower the baby with speech. It basks in this meaningful aura until it begins to grasp it. The way the Word of BD works is similar. For this reason it's more difficult to point at some concrete talk where he speaks of the afterlife at length. These things are dispersed everywhere in the talks.

[Cleric K]

Excellent back-and-forth here Cleric. Thanks.

Please read this again:

Let me express my prejudice: When something is titled A Symphony of Minds I expect something that is audio or gives me a strong feeling of musicality within. Your graphics work sorta as a visual model (metaphor) but not as a sensual experience for me. I am therefore thrust into an intellectual appreciation more than an experience.

My prejudice was about using a musical metaphor that did not generate a musical feeling within me. The absence thrust me by default toward an inadequate intellectualism. Why did you make it about Mind?

Lou, I think this should be clear already. My only point was that when we understand the spiritual depth of the human being, everything becomes music. Thus it's normal that you don't find literal auditory music in the essay but when we understand what it is about, then we understand that there's more than music in these things. Auditory music is only one of the expressions of the human spirit, yet all these expressions are related in a higher form of meaningful harmony. What's the benefit of music if all the rest of our lives is akin to noise? Isn't peace, intelligence, love, music?

Do you feel JC is missing that there is a kind of music that can be compared to a translation of celestial ideal realities to the limited auditory language of music? How do you know that?

I don't know that. As said, time will tell.

But, yes, there is another kind of celestial music which is why some in the Eastern ways meditate on chanting the OM or a sutra. Or, in the Western tradition, monks explore consciousness with beautiful chants. Do you think they are naive or foolish or unaware or, perhaps, that they simply have other valid paths of exploration?

As we're discussing on the other thread, the path of evolution requires that the contextual layers of our existence come into attunement. In the most general sense, this means that our thinking, feeling and will need to become concentric, aligned with a Divine ideal.

Such is also the place of music in the new human being. Music that simply tingles the senses and stirs some emotions belongs to the old world. In the new world, everything must become meaningful. Every act, every feeling, every thought, should be a well-placed note in the Divine Symphony.

Since we're speaking with Guney about master Beinsa Duno, it might be of interest to see a practical example of one way in which the contextual strata of our being can become in alignment.

These are gymnastic exercises (will). Yet they are not mechanical movements. Every movement is an artistic expression of certain feelings and ideas. In this clip we have only the music but there are also lyrics (music, singing - feeling). The exercises require full concentration on the meaning of what we're doing (thinking) and alignment between our thoughts, feelings and movements. And when all these are inspired by a Divine Idea, we're working consciously for our Good collective future.

[Güney27]

Isn't it the mission of the white brotherhood to harmonize the life of the humans, with the Cosmic plan of God?

Yes, it is. This is what the Symphony of Minds is. Spiritual beings who have as their highest ideal the Unity of all existence and its musical unfoldment.

Did you came across on his lectures about the spheres of afterlife?

Yes, he speaks of that, although not in such conceptual details as we find it in SS. His pedagogical method is quite different. This has to do with the specifics of the Slavic soul where he had his mission. Steiner had his mission for the Western mind, Beinsa Duno gave his teachings in a form more appropriate for the souls which still had some religious predisposition to work with the Christ. In other words, there's still faith. In Western Europe it was already quite difficult to reach the experience of the Christ in this way. The mind simply had lost all trust in the spiritual. That's why the only path to salvation passes through the spiritualization of the intellect. Today, however, these two approaches should already unite. Those who are predisposed because of their Karma to deep religious feelings and faith, need to bring to focus their intuitive activity. Conversely, those predisposed to work with the intellect should not remain only with thoughts but ignite through them the deep devotional life.

If we understand the difference between these souls in Eastern and Western Europe, we'll also understand why the Word of these masters had to take different forms. In spiritual science we have well-defined topics and a clear thread that is building through the lecture. The talks of BD may look chaotic on the surface. They also have a topic but it is much more heartfelt. The closest way I can describe this is if we compare it with the way babies learn language. We can't start with some basic words and build up from there. Instead, we need to continuously shower the baby with speech. It basks in this meaningful aura until it begins to grasp it. The way the Word of BD works is similar. For this reason it's more difficult to point at some concrete talk where he speaks of the afterlife at length. These things are dispersed everywhere in the talks.

What do you mean withe the spiritualization of the intellect?
Is it the exceptional state ?

[Cleric K]

What do you mean withe the spiritualization of the intellect?
Is it the exceptional state ?

It is the starting point. Spiritualization starts with awakening to the fact that in the thinking process we are One and the same with the creative essence of reality - the Spirit. The same Spirit that creates Worlds. In thinking we have the World-creation process in miniature, within deep and convoluted constraints. Spiritualization is the evolutionary process through which the Spirit transforms its constraints, continuously awakens to its unlimited potential, and grows into Cosmic dimensions, from whence a new World is seeded.

[Cleric K]

PS: Stated like this, however, this idea presents a great temptation. We're prone to imagine our ego enlarging and fantasizing that we create the World as we think our thought-forms in our mind's container. This is misleading. Instead, we should always remember that we find Cosmic immensity through continuous sacrifice. Sacrifice-death-resurrection. We continuously undress our old shells in order to resurrect and awaken within the True Higher Being. This is why we can never make progress without prayer. It is only through prayer that we make contact with the Higher Being, which gives us the inner certainty that existence won't end when our Earthly mask is loosened.

[Lou Gold]

Excellent back-and-forth here Cleric. Thanks.

Please read this again:

Let me express my prejudice: When something is titled A Symphony of Minds I expect something that is audio or gives me a strong feeling of musicality within. Your graphics work sorta as a visual model (metaphor) but not as a sensual experience for me. I am therefore thrust into an intellectual appreciation more than an experience.

My prejudice was about using a musical metaphor that did not generate a musical feeling within me. The absence thrust me by default toward an inadequate intellectualism. Why did you make it about Mind?

Lou, I think this should be clear already. My only point was that when we understand the spiritual depth of the human being, everything becomes music. Thus it's normal that you don't find literal auditory music in the essay but when we understand what it is about, then we understand that there's more than music in these things. Auditory music is only one of the expressions of the human spirit, yet all these expressions are related in a higher form of meaningful harmony. What's the benefit of music if all the rest of our lives is akin to noise? Isn't peace, intelligence, love, music?

Do you feel JC is missing that there is a kind of music that can be compared to a translation of celestial ideal realities to the limited auditory language of music? How do you know that?

I don't know that. As said, time will tell.

But, yes, there is another kind of celestial music which is why some in the Eastern ways meditate on chanting the OM or a sutra. Or, in the Western tradition, monks explore consciousness with beautiful chants. Do you think they are naive or foolish or unaware or, perhaps, that they simply have other valid paths of exploration?

As we're discussing on the other thread, the path of evolution requires that the contextual layers of our existence come into attunement. In the most general sense, this means that our thinking, feeling and will need to become concentric, aligned with a Divine ideal.

Such is also the place of music in the new human being. Music that simply tingles the senses and stirs some emotions belongs to the old world. In the new world, everything must become meaningful. Every act, every feeling, every thought, should be a well-placed note in the Divine Symphony.

Since we're speaking with Guney about master Beinsa Duno, it might be of interest to see a practical example of one way in which the contextual strata of our being can become in alignment.

These are gymnastic exercises (will). Yet they are not mechanical movements. Every movement is an artistic expression of certain feelings and ideas. In this clip we have only the music but there are also lyrics (music, singing - feeling). The exercises require full concentration on the meaning of what we're doing (thinking) and alignment between our thoughts, feelings and movements. And when all these are inspired by a Divine Idea, we're working consciously for our Good collective future.

Cleric,

I grok what you are aiming for. May I suggest that "Celestial Chorus of the Spheres" might better orient the reader toward your more transcendent or expansive purpose than is evoked by language usage of "Symphony of Minds." (Not an argument, just a suggestion.) Also, although I'm too invalid now to experiment with physical exercises, my experiences (see below) with the combination of music, singing, rhythmic percussion and dance in Santo Daime has shown me personally that physical rituals like you suggest can definitely work.

OK, it's been a good day. Thanks.

[Cleric K]

Cleric,

I grok what you are aiming for. May I suggest that "Celestial Chorus of the Spheres" might better orient the reader toward your more transcendent or expansive purpose than is evoked by language usage of "Symphony of Minds." (Not an argument, just a suggestion.) Also, although I'm too invalid now to experiment with physical exercises, my experiences (see below) with the combination of music, singing, rhythmic percussion and dance in Santo Daime has shown me personally that physical rituals like you suggest can definitely work.

Yes, that's a good option. No matter what label we choose, things will always be received within a personal intuitive context, which will color it in specific way. In our materialistic age, 'sphere' naturally evokes geometric intuition. For most people it will sound something like "The celestial harmony of gravity and electromagnetic fields". And such romanticizing of purely physicalist science is common. For example, Brian Greene is a proponent of string theory, one of his books is called The Elegant Universe. So music, harmonies, etc. can very well be used to speak of such abstract matters, yet it all remains just syntactic sugar. With the word 'mind' I wanted to emphasize from the get-go that we're speaking of a symphony of inner experiences, that is, we're dealing with something living and conscious.

There's no perfect choice of words, simply because we're trying to speak of things which are completely outside the general consciousness of modern humanity. Whatever label we use, will be grasped in whatever it means in the Earthly (embodied) intuitive context. In that respect, as said previously, the word 'spiritual being' seems to be even more problematic. One can't help but imagine some form of a creature, possibly weaved of thinner substance. The attempt was to hint that these spheres should be conceived not as objects in space outside of us but as the nested contexts of MAL, within which our own consciousness is concentrically embedded. Just like we feel our waking activity is embedded in our personal subconscious sphere, so that is further embedded in spheres that become progressively collective and archetypal.

So a kind of balance is needed. On one hand, if we use directly esoteric terms, most will immediately dismiss the topic as 'empty words', like BK did recently. When our words are too grounded in the sensory world, people will gladly assume that we're speaking of the next ToE, clothed in sugary terms. With the choice of the word 'mind' I tried to make an experiment and see if it strikes some kind of balance. Still evoking association with living inner experience, yet not too far out that one immediately dismisses it as fantastic and empty esoteric mumbo-jumbo.

[Güney27]

Isn't it the mission of the white brotherhood to harmonize the life of the humans, with the Cosmic plan of God?

Yes, it is. This is what the Symphony of Minds is. Spiritual beings who have as their highest ideal the Unity of all existence and its musical unfoldment.

Did you came across on his lectures about the spheres of afterlife?

Yes, he speaks of that, although not in such conceptual details as we find it in SS. His pedagogical method is quite different. This has to do with the specifics of the Slavic soul where he had his mission. Steiner had his mission for the Western mind, Beinsa Duno gave his teachings in a form more appropriate for the souls which still had some religious predisposition to work with the Christ. In other words, there's still faith. In Western Europe it was already quite difficult to reach the experience of the Christ in this way. The mind simply had lost all trust in the spiritual. That's why the only path to salvation passes through the spiritualization of the intellect. Today, however, these two approaches should already unite. Those who are predisposed because of their Karma to deep religious feelings and faith, need to bring to focus their intuitive activity. Conversely, those predisposed to work with the intellect should not remain only with thoughts but ignite through them the deep devotional life.

If we understand the difference between these souls in Eastern and Western Europe, we'll also understand why the Word of these masters had to take different forms. In spiritual science we have well-defined topics and a clear thread that is building through the lecture. The talks of BD may look chaotic on the surface. They also have a topic but it is much more heartfelt. The closest way I can describe this is if we compare it with the way babies learn language. We can't start with some basic words and build up from there. Instead, we need to continuously shower the baby with speech. It basks in this meaningful aura until it begins to grasp it. The way the Word of BD works is similar. For this reason it's more difficult to point at some concrete talk where he speaks of the afterlife at length. These things are dispersed everywhere in the talks.

Cleric,

Why does Peter deunov not speak about spiritual activity in the way steiner or you do it?

Is he not aware of the spiritual activity that gives rise to tought images, or is it like you said that it is too rooted in the mission or impulses they try to embodie?


Another question, the (thinking) process you described in the essay as an actual world process, is only known intuitive as something which requires a certain struggle.
Is it that at some point that on can lives in this activity, without the reflection in images or anything else?
Because I only feel active and then there are finished thoughts (at least in pure thinking).

Will human beings someday awaken to a new reflection of one's activity, like someone who learns to think pictorial?

[lorenzop]

Is he not aware of the spiritual activity that gives rise to tought images, or is it like you said that it is too rooted in the mission or impulses they try to embodie?


Another question, the (thinking) process you described in the essay as an actual world process, is only known intuitive as something which requires a certain struggle.
Is it that at some point that on can lives in this activity, without the reflection in images or anything else?
Because I only feel active and then there are finished thoughts (at least in pure thinking).

Will human beings someday awaken to a new reflection of one's activity, like someone who learns to think pictorial?

This post is not about the specifics of Cleric's essay, but simply to suggest that the essay is written for those who already understand and 'get' Anthrosophy\Steiner. Cleric's use of 'spiritual activity' and 'thinking' are as elusive today as they were 2 years ago when I first came upon Cleric's writing.
For example: 2 people could have the same thought: "I have $12,000.00 in the bank" For one person this thought could be accompanied by a feeling of confidence and safety, for another person a feeling of dread and anxiety.
One person may desire things, another may desire travel, another may cherish time with family.
I wouldn't muddy or despoil the word 'spiritual' by naming the above differences as differences in 'spiritual activity' - nor would I refer to these differences as differences in 'thinking'.