Page 4 of 11
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:21 am
by AshvinP
Eugene I wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:49 am
Take for example computer AI as an analogy. There is an algorithmic activity and there is also a memory, and there can even be meta-cognition in AI (nowadays meta-cognitive AIs are being developed by some researchers). Yet all of it does not result in the existence of any "subject" of activity or continuity in AI. There is no "self" or "I" to AI.
What are these "meta-cognitive" AIs you reference? Can you provide a link or additional explanation.
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:40 am
by Lou Gold
Please forgive my view from the edge and ignorance of the technicalities but I'm genuinely curious about why one might want "Idealism without woo-woo"? Is it like wanting Science without Religion or wanting Everything without Something? Please help me understand.
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:45 pm
by Mandibil
As I say in my presentation --- it can very quickly get very complicated
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:47 pm
by Mandibil
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:40 am
Please forgive my view from the edge and ignorance of the technicalities but I'm genuinely curious about why one might want "Idealism without woo-woo"? Is it like wanting Science without Religion or wanting Everything without Something? Please help me understand.
With "woo-woo" I basically refer to any attempt at "explaining" what "the things in themselves" are. Be that some kind of transcendental access, a "mind at large" and everything else. My first axiom of metaphysics, experience is all I can base anything on, leaves no room for access to what I cannot experience
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:41 pm
by Lou Gold
Mandibil wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:47 pm
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:40 am
Please forgive my view from the edge and ignorance of the technicalities but I'm genuinely curious about why one might want "Idealism without woo-woo"? Is it like wanting Science without Religion or wanting Everything without Something? Please help me understand.
With "woo-woo" I basically refer to any attempt at "explaining" what "the things in themselves" are. Be that some kind of transcendental access, a "mind at large" and everything else. My first axiom of metaphysics, experience is all I can base anything on, leaves no room for access to what I cannot experience
Do you have a second axiom that says, "I can experience everything" ?
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:09 pm
by Soul_of_Shu
There are experiential modalities that give access to a state of That which one is in essence, if ready to deal with experiencing the utter disappearance of the subject><object-based maya-you ... at least until the ontological imperative inevitably kicks back in.
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:35 pm
by Lou Gold
Soul_of_Shu wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:09 pm
There are experiential modalities that give access to a state of
That which one is in essence, if ready to deal with experiencing the utter disappearance of the subject><object-based maya-you ... at least until the ontological imperative inevitably kicks back in.
Seems that the OP kicks back in with the survival habit that attempts to communicate verbally or to find meaning in or to explain the experience.
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:21 pm
by Lou Gold
Maybe, "I can experience everything" is the only axiom that is needed.
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 9:23 pm
by Mandibil
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 3:41 pm
Mandibil wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 1:47 pm
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 6:40 am
Please forgive my view from the edge and ignorance of the technicalities but I'm genuinely curious about why one might want "Idealism without woo-woo"? Is it like wanting Science without Religion or wanting Everything without Something? Please help me understand.
With "woo-woo" I basically refer to any attempt at "explaining" what "the things in themselves" are. Be that some kind of transcendental access, a "mind at large" and everything else. My first axiom of metaphysics, experience is all I can base anything on, leaves no room for access to what I cannot experience
Do you have a second axiom that says, "I can experience everything" ?
In metaphysics I would not refer to "things" ... check out the last few minutes of the video in the OP. There are the axioms.
Re: Metaphysics - Idealism without woo-woo
Posted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:15 pm
by Mandibil
Lou Gold wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 7:21 pm
Maybe, "I can experience everything" is the only axiom that is needed.
You need more to get to epistemology
