Lou Gold wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:40 pm
OK. Here we go again. Your full statement was
"There's no such direct experience that in itself says "by the way, I'm not real". We can come to such conclusions only consequently, through thinking." However, one chooses how to identify (attach) to the experience. The meditative practice of relaxing (detaching) the identification will release a previously obfuscated experience. Relax the 'I' identification and experience other than 'I'. As Rumi says,
When the soul lies down in that grass,
the world is too full to talk about.
Ideas, language, even the phrase “each other”
doesn’t make any sense.
You can't think 'me' without thinking 'other' and this is why the Bhagavad Gita says, "The difficulty begins with the thought of 'I' and 'mine'. It is the identification tat is the illusion.
Here we are finding intersection. I do agree that relaxation of identification is the way to self knowledge.
What I'll argue is that this de-identification stops short. What I mean is that when we fuse with the Universe, in the way it is commonly done, it is only
another form of identification. Our ego expands and lovingly embraces the totality of experience. We don't feel separation anymore because we have identified with the the world content. We have left
nothing outside of ourselves. Of course, this identification is rarely explicit as in "I'm now one with the Universe". This we don't do, because we avoid the I-word. But we are nevertheless there, spread over the world, lovingly allowing ourselves to be carried on the chords of creation. And canary in the coal mine that betrays this, is the simple fact that after we are in our normal state we can say in full honesty "I experienced oneness with the Universe, we were one". This in itself should make us aware that our "I" was there all along, experiencing, recording and then being able to recall the experience. Even if in the higher state there were no trace of our intellect, our desires, our flaws, etc., still, the
same essential nature that animates both our lower and higher experience is present in both cases. That's why we can have awareness of transitioning between one state and the other. There's
something common in both states, that is able to witness the transition. (again, not arguing about ontic "I". It's just difficult to escape the specifics of language, which is designed to express in this way)
So I fully agree that we need to de-identify but I should say that this process can go much deeper and in a direction that not many are willing to take. Precisely because one becomes aware of the iceberg. It is easy to push away the contents of the ego and spend some time spread out over the fabric of the Cosmos. It's a much more disturbing experience to witness what we are made of.