Anti-Materialist Historical Materialism

[JustinG]

I've completed a draft paper (https://www.academia.edu/45002566/Posto ... st_Marxism) relating the work of social theorist Moishe Postone to panpsychism, which might be of interest to readers on this forum (a lot of what it says could be applied to idealism as well as panpsychism). Below is the abstract:

"There is an urgent need for contemporary social theory to address the challenges of the Anthropocene. How theorists conceptualise the natural world influences their approach to conceiving and addressing these challenges. Within the historical materialist tradition,there has been a lack of attention to approaches which go beyond critiques of scientistic conceptions of nature towards developing alternative conceptions, which could be more conducive to human and ecological survival and flourishing. This paper aims to contribute to the filling of this gap through investigating modern conceptions of nature through the lens of Moishe Postone’s Time, Labor and Social Domination. Looking through this lens leads on to consideration of the critical potential of panpsychism, the view that consciousness is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of nature, with particular attention to how this view has been developed in the process philosophy tradition inspired by Alfred North Whitehead. It is concluded that a form of historical materialism which not only critiques the hegemonic worldview of scientific materialism but also advances alternative ontologies broadens the base for envisaging postcapitalist possibilities."

[Soul_of_Shu]

It's an interesting paper, and a good example of a nuanced exploration and explication of the socio-politico-economic implications that grow out of any given metaphysical/ontological premise. Perhaps a premise based on some version of panpsychism can salvage some notion of 'matter' that physics has yet to discover, and thus also salvage some 'historical' materialism based in atomism. But if that premise is idealism as I understand idealism to be, then any system that depends upon so-called matter seems doomed.

[Mandibil]

"Towards an anti-Materialist Marxism" ... immediately puts me off

[Soul_of_Shu]

"Towards an anti-Materialist Marxism" ... immediately puts me off

Yeah, the historical baggage that comes with terms like 'Marxism' makes it hard to get past some anachronistic interpretation, regardless of how it is re-labeled. More and more it seems we're experiencing some paradigmatic phase transition metaphorically tantamount to the dissolution of some larval form, now having outlived its stage-specific mode, that is integral to its metamorphosis into a novel modality that will not resemble any of the sort that have been previously employed. Somewhat synchronistically, this trialogue just popped up in the youtube feed that speaks to this topic, which I'll chance delving into, even as it seems fraught with potential trigger-effects, trusting that there can be a nuanced metaphysically focused discussion around it that doesn't degenerate into a pissing contest ...

[Matthew Brett]

"Yeah, the historical baggage that comes with terms like 'Marxism' makes it hard to get past some anachronistic interpretation, regardless of how it is re-labeled."

It isn't the term that's problematic, it's the philosophy.

[Soul_of_Shu]

"Yeah, the historical baggage that comes with terms like 'Marxism' makes it hard to get past some anachronistic interpretation, regardless of how it is re-labeled."

It isn't the term that's problematic, it's the philosophy.

What current socio-politico-economic system that has grown out of metaphysical materialism isn't problematic?

[AshvinP]

"There is an urgent need for contemporary social theory to address the challenges of the Anthropocene. How theorists conceptualise the natural world influences their approach to conceiving and addressing these challenges. Within the historical materialist tradition,there has been a lack of attention to approaches which go beyond critiques of scientistic conceptions of nature towards developing alternative conceptions, which could be more conducive to human and ecological survival and flourishing. This paper aims to contribute to the filling of this gap through investigating modern conceptions of nature through the lens of Moishe Postone’s Time, Labor and Social Domination. Looking through this lens leads on to consideration of the critical potential of panpsychism, the view that consciousness is a fundamental and ubiquitous feature of nature, with particular attention to how this view has been developed in the process philosophy tradition inspired by Alfred North Whitehead. It is concluded that a form of historical materialism which not only critiques the hegemonic worldview of scientific materialism but also advances alternative ontologies broadens the base for envisaging postcapitalist possibilities."

The most obvious issue here is that panpsychist ontology (PO) does not do anything to restore the culture-nature divide or subject-object divide which are at the root of the alienation of individuals from the environment and other individuals. PO just takes conscious activity and sticks it onto a bunch of material stuff, leaving the fundamental divisions in place. Without making conscious activity fundamental and primary, those critical relationships between subject-object and culture-nature cannot be restored and reimagined.

[JustinG]

Whilst some forms of panpsychism may take conscious activity and "sticks it onto a bunch of material stuff" I wouldn't say Whitehead's does. It's more like a "microidealist" form of idealism. He says that his work could be likened to "a transformation of some main doctrines of Absolute idealism onto a realistic basis".
In any case, Postone gives precedence to the social construction of philosophy over ontology, arguing that conceptions of nature are socially constituted (whether or not this is correct is of course is a huge topic in itself).

[AshvinP]

Whilst some forms of panpsychism may take conscious activity and "sticks it onto a bunch of material stuff" I wouldn't say Whitehead's does. It's more like a "microidealist" form of idealism. He says that his work could be likened to "a transformation of some main doctrines of Absolute idealism onto a realistic basis".
In any case, Postone gives precedence to the social construction of philosophy over ontology, arguing that conceptions of nature are socially constituted (whether or not this is correct is of course is a huge topic in itself).

I am not sure what is meant by transferring "main doctrines of absolute idealism onto a realistic basis". Could you elaborate?

Giving precedence to social construction is a problem. I believe thinkers such as Barfield, Gebser, Heidegger, Jung, Spengler and others have shown in detail how conceptions of nature have changed throughout history in relation to metaphysical shifts, i.e. shifts in subconsciousness. The bifurcation of nature into "two systems of reality", i.e. that of culture-nature, predated capitalism by thousands of years. Although the era of rationalism and scientific materialism certainly intensified the divide so that there was almost no cross-study of nature and the mind, it was not a fundamental discontinuity from previous eras. Until the source of the 'problem' is recognized at that deep metaphysical level, the proposed 'solutions' will remain superficial at best, entirely destructive at worst.

[JustinG]

I'm not going to try and summarise Whitehead but Matthew Segall's site has a lot of good Whitehead stuff on it (eg he recently put up this video https://footnotes2plato.com/2020/12/10/ ... hilosophy/, though I haven't seen it yet).
I agree that the deep metaphysical source of the culture-nature split goes back thousand of years. I think it can be traced back to the introduction of monetisation in ancient Greece, as Richard Seaford has argued.