The Role of Poetry

[Lou Gold]

Keep on tribing, 'till you reach the higher ground ...

FOR SURE!
RIGHT ON!
VIVA!

May music and poetry lead the way forward and back to the roots.

[AshvinP]

Or can the individual express original ideas and perspectives apart from group identity?

Yes! Of course! Certainly! Praise and Glory Be!

I don't support the censure folks but there's a curious irony, indeed. Going after Jordan Peterson in the academy catapulted his career as a public intellectual and the Materialist censorship of Rupert Sheldrake's TED Talk resulted in it receiving 5 million views.

Spirit does work in curious metaphysical ways.

True indeed. As Jung put it, "No tree, it is said, can grow to heaven unless its roots reach down to hell." I take this to mean we must confront and know the darkest aspects of ourselves, our families, our communities and our societies without letting them run our lives. In fact, getting to know them intimately will prevent them from running our lives.

[Lou Gold]

I take this to mean we must confront and know the darkest aspects of ourselves, our families, our communities and our societies without letting them run our lives. In fact, getting to know them intimately will prevent them from running our lives.

Yes, and as your signature quote suggests, kindness combined with right distance, may work its magic. This is the meaning I find in St Michael NOT killing the demon. If the demon defeats the light we will be lost in darkness. If the reverse, we will be blinded by the light. Therefore, the goal is balance (right distance, right action, middle way, etc). In the archetypal image (above), the scales are the bridge touching both sides and the "peace that passeth understanding" is at the unmoving quiet point of the top (transcendent place) of the fulcrum. Overall, it is an incredibly poignant image that is misunderstood if simplistically reduced to warfare, which is a common reduction-error in interpreting scriptures. Krishna's teachings to Arjuna come to mind.

[Lou Gold]

The archetype of Lady Justice is similarly interesting.



Blindfolded because visual perception can be mentally deceived and feminine because balance is a "feel thing".

And, it is balance that is the bridge over troubled waters.

Yeah ... I know, I know ... they don't teach it in law schools this way.
Archetypes are for contemplation.

[AshvinP]

I take this to mean we must confront and know the darkest aspects of ourselves, our families, our communities and our societies without letting them run our lives. In fact, getting to know them intimately will prevent them from running our lives.

Yes, and as your signature quote suggests, kindness combined with right distance, may work its magic. This is the meaning I find in St Michael NOT killing the demon. If the demon defeats the light we will be lost in darkness. If the reverse, we will be blinded by the light. Therefore, the goal is balance (right distance, right action, middle way, etc). In the archetypal image (above), the scales are the bridge touching both sides and the "peace that passeth understanding" is at the unmoving quiet point of the top (transcendent place) of the fulcrum. Overall, it is an incredibly poignant image that is misunderstood if simplistically reduced to warfare, which is a common reduction-error in interpreting scriptures. Krishna's teachings to Arjuna come to mind.

Balance of that sort is but one step towards greater consciousness, in my view. That's where I think people like William Blake fell a bit short, i.e. that there must forever be the oppositional qualities held in balance by imagination.

As for Lady Justice, you anticipated I would remark she was blindfolded because "justice is blind", but if we go with your meaning instead, I will still critique the idea of keeping our eyes closed to the deceptive world. We find that in all the Hindu statues of gods and goddesses, because the world is Maya, an illusory dream. I believe there was a time and place for that realization to serve an important function in humanity's development, but we are now well past the point of it being a more helpful than harmful world conception.

[Lou Gold]

Yes! We have quite different interpretations. Where you see a never-ending war to be finally resolved, I see a never-ending tension that is endlessly creative. Archetypally, it would appear as a kind of fractal yin-yang. Furthermore, I do not see a hierarchy of progress but rather cycles of change and union -- cycling and recycling events (a verb, a process) rather than an outcome (a noun, object). Yes, "justice is blind" which means that balance will have to be a "feel" and generative (creative) thing. She, like Wisdom, has been an archetype in process from the beginning and continues to cry out to the town.

[AshvinP]

Yes! We have quite different interpretations. Where you see a never-ending war to be finally resolved, I see a never-ending tension that is endlessly creative. Archetypally, it would appear as a kind of fractal yin-yang. Furthermore, I do not see a hierarchy of progress but rather cycles of change and union -- cycling and recycling events (a verb, a process) rather than an outcome (a noun, object). Yes, "justice is blind" which means that balance will have to be a "feel" and generative (creative) thing. She, like Wisdom, has been an archetype in process from the beginning and continues to cry out to the town.

It may not be "finally resolved", but it will not circle around in the same place forever. A fractal or spiral pattern is more akin to continuous novelty with a progressive development. It's not a coincidence that all the symbols which imply a stasis emerge from the East and those implying progressive development from ancient Persia and the West. I think it's clear the archetype of Wisdom which comes through Judaism and Gnostic Christianity fits in with the latter much better than the former. The Old Testament itself is clearly a revelation of progressive development, from collective to individual, 'unconscious' to conscious, etc.

[Lou Gold]

Yes! We have quite different interpretations. Where you see a never-ending war to be finally resolved, I see a never-ending tension that is endlessly creative. Archetypally, it would appear as a kind of fractal yin-yang. Furthermore, I do not see a hierarchy of progress but rather cycles of change and union -- cycling and recycling events (a verb, a process) rather than an outcome (a noun, object). Yes, "justice is blind" which means that balance will have to be a "feel" and generative (creative) thing. She, like Wisdom, has been an archetype in process from the beginning and continues to cry out to the town.

It may not be "finally resolved", but it will not circle around in the same place forever. A fractal or spiral pattern is more akin to continuous novelty with a progressive development. It's not a coincidence that all the symbols which imply a stasis emerge from the East and those implying progressive development from ancient Persia and the West. I think it's clear the archetype of Wisdom which comes through Judaism and Gnostic Christianity fits in with the latter much better than the former. The Old Testament itself is clearly a revelation of progressive development, from collective to individual, 'unconscious' to conscious, etc.

Yeah, we have different views. You see progress and I see change. But it is quite incorrect to assign 'random meaningless chaos' to my sense of change, which I see as a great mysteriousness necessitating caring careful mutual attention. The so-called march from collective to individual is made possible only by virtue of an evolving expanded more mutual individual. In other words, consciousness expands with both a new collective and a new individual. So, once again, not either/or but both/and (or mumorphic if that suits you better).

[AshvinP]

Yes! We have quite different interpretations. Where you see a never-ending war to be finally resolved, I see a never-ending tension that is endlessly creative. Archetypally, it would appear as a kind of fractal yin-yang. Furthermore, I do not see a hierarchy of progress but rather cycles of change and union -- cycling and recycling events (a verb, a process) rather than an outcome (a noun, object). Yes, "justice is blind" which means that balance will have to be a "feel" and generative (creative) thing. She, like Wisdom, has been an archetype in process from the beginning and continues to cry out to the town.

It may not be "finally resolved", but it will not circle around in the same place forever. A fractal or spiral pattern is more akin to continuous novelty with a progressive development. It's not a coincidence that all the symbols which imply a stasis emerge from the East and those implying progressive development from ancient Persia and the West. I think it's clear the archetype of Wisdom which comes through Judaism and Gnostic Christianity fits in with the latter much better than the former. The Old Testament itself is clearly a revelation of progressive development, from collective to individual, 'unconscious' to conscious, etc.

Yeah, we have different views. You see progress and I see change. But it is quite incorrect to assign 'random meaningless chaos' to my sense of change, which I see as a great mysteriousness necessitating caring careful mutual attention. The so-called march from collective to individual is made possible only by virtue of an evolving expanded more mutual individual. In other words, consciousness expands with both a new collective and a new individual. So, once again, not either/or but both/and (or mumorphic if that suits you better).

I didn't assign random chaos to your view, quite the opposite - a static preservation of a past ideal state. Ironically, it's usually 'conservative' leaning people who adopt that view.

We can't say both/and to every single concept out there Although I will take some blame for that by throwing around Scott's mumorphism a lot in the previous discussions. It generally applies to polar opposites associated with formlessness and form or the special case of Absolute-contingent.

[Lou Gold]

It may not be "finally resolved", but it will not circle around in the same place forever. A fractal or spiral pattern is more akin to continuous novelty with a progressive development. It's not a coincidence that all the symbols which imply a stasis emerge from the East and those implying progressive development from ancient Persia and the West. I think it's clear the archetype of Wisdom which comes through Judaism and Gnostic Christianity fits in with the latter much better than the former. The Old Testament itself is clearly a revelation of progressive development, from collective to individual, 'unconscious' to conscious, etc.

Yeah, we have different views. You see progress and I see change. But it is quite incorrect to assign 'random meaningless chaos' to my sense of change, which I see as a great mysteriousness necessitating caring careful mutual attention. The so-called march from collective to individual is made possible only by virtue of an evolving expanded more mutual individual. In other words, consciousness expands with both a new collective and a new individual. So, once again, not either/or but both/and (or mumorphic if that suits you better).

I didn't assign random chaos to your view, quite the opposite - a static preservation of a past ideal state. Ironically, it's usually 'conservative' leaning people who adopt that view.

We can't say both/and to every single concept out there Although I will take some blame for that by throwing around Scott's mumorphism a lot in the previous discussions. It generally applies to polar opposites associated with formlessness and form or the special case of Absolute-contingent.

A

static preservation of a past ideal state

is quite a misperception of my notion of ancient/future. I am a 'conservative' in the sense of ecological conservation but surely not in terms of the tools and awareness employed. For example, I'm quite happy that indigenous Amazonians now use smartphones linked to satellites for monitoring for illegal logging and that LIDAR monitoring is identifying ancient terra preta sites. I would be similarly impressed if moderns recognized Polynesian navigators, aboriginals in the Outback and Peruvian shamans as also very scientific with much useful knowledge and wisdom to share.